The 5:2 thread number 25- One year on from Dr Mosley's Horizon ep!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through our very own fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Completely forgot to post about the point of the thread .

I am getting a waist! . Still over weight but it has only been 1-2 weeks I have been doing this. I wish I could remember when I started but I only remember one weigh in so I will count 3.8.13 as the start date. I think I might have to do 4:3.
Friday - FD - 432 cals
Sat - NFD - 675 cals (but low I suspect but didn't starve.)
Sun - NFD 1175.
Mon - FD(ish) - 689
Tues - NFD - 765 plus some not counted low fat sour cream and chive M&S crisps.
Wed - so far 292 cals. Bought some yummy seeded bread and had that as toast as a treat as had been avoiding bread. Was fine with it .

Anyone still awake???

hopefulgum When are you eating on fast days? If I'm working I find it helpful to eat 200 of my calories as lunch as otherwise I tend to crash out a bit at 2.30ish - not ideal in a school environment though fine when at home!

I eat early in the evenings - 6pm and don't usually eat anything afterwards [polishes halo] so 20 hours seems to be my maximum and I usually eat after 18hours (lunch at work) which stops me crashing.

I'm banking on 18 hours being enough for the health benefits - it certainly works fine for weight loss.

Clothes and flatter stomach are a far more important measure of how you are achieving than the vagaries of the scales. You are not deluding yourself - you are already seeing results, if you continue as you are the scales will catch up and you will be slim by Christmas :)

EagleRider thank you for the suggestion of Danish bread. I have put it on the shopping list to try next time I do the food shop.

MissS I know you're trying to get results quickly but I'm very worried about your low calorie intake on NFDs. You really need to eat within 10% of your TDEE most NFDs and ideally a little over at weekends...

There's plenty of anecdotal evidence on these threads that suggest that it's the contrast between fast day eating and NFDs that makes the difference.

So, lovely that your waist is reducing but what you are doing is not sustainable and I think will derail your efforts - I suspect you will stop losing weight quite soon, and worse you are likely to not be taking in enough nutrition. That is not healthy and not what this WOE is about.

I don't know what your BMR is but you are not likely to be anywhere near that on the 5 non fast days.

You could try ADF perhaps (fasting every other day) but you need to up your calories on NFDs.

I'm honestly not trying to starve myself but am listening to my body and this is what it wants to have . Last night I was still hungry after my salad with tomatoes and 3 pieces of scampi so I had some biscuits and later a few crisps so I will eat. I also had 5 chips when making DS1's tea.

I am eating a lot of salads. Bought some cheese yesterday and will get some fish things next time I go out.

On Sunday I had a lovely roast lunch but it was quite a big meal though I enjoyed it and didn't feel bloated afterwards. I feel like I am eating better but takes less than 1807 to feel full.

My BMR is 1506.

Betsybell If you see any articles that you want the whole of, email me and I'll scan them for you you ... I give my read set to the kids school for in the science prep room ..... DH's membership of the ASE subsidises the sub by quite a lot .

misstrawb
If you are not that hungry, just make sure you keep your protein and fluids up.

MAINTAINING
My policy is to still do 5:2 ..... 24 hour fasts but only one 500 calorie supper per week ... the other day is nearer 1000 calories .... but I do tend to overdo the fermented fruit juice at weekends

Hi everyone

I'm an occasional poster on here, but lurk most fast days for inspiration and encouragement.

I've been doing 5:2 since the end of Feb and have not lost a lot of weight. I've improved my IBS hugely, and I really enjoy the feeling I get on FDs. My DF has early Altzheimers, so I feel v motivated to continue.

My question is this:

I feel that my head is in the wrong place on NFDs. What do I do about it? I go back to overeating again, feeling bloated and the usual crappy feeling.

Its as if I am trying to fill myself with something thats missing in my life (no idea what) and filling myself with food is the answer... and it quite patently isn't!!

I concentrate on low GL food, normally, but cannot eat eggs or wheat. When I read about others saying that their attitude has changed to food, and they're only eating half their plates of food I feel very and then rather

Any ideas? Do I need to go and see someone about this or can I sort it myself?

blue2
silly thing, are you logging (not counting but just recording) your NFD calories on MFP
are they ball park to your TDEE?
glad its helped your IBS
but I suspect you are eating too much ....
use the summer to MASSIVELY up the vegetables and try to have lots of fish and see if that helps

Raw nuts and seeds (or home roasted, avoid the stuff covered in salt), avocados, oil-based salad dressings are all good nutritious ways of boosting your calories on your lovely salads. The seeded bread is an excellent choice.

I appreciate that you are not trying to starve yourself but IF works if it's intermittent.

Sorry for the lecture but you are likely to do long term damage to your vital organs if you restrict your calories so massively on a daily basis.

Focus on nutrition if you can, it's a bit pointless to boost up calories with biscuits and crisps. Use this WOE to make proper lifestyle changes so that you've got a good basis for being the healthiest version of yourself.

I'm not perfect myself btw, I happily tuck into puds and wine at the weekend, but I'm 2 years into a life style change journey and I feel better, fitter and healthier than I've ever felt before. There's a before and after pic on my profile if you want convincing...

2 years ago I was 13.6, BMI 31, I am now 9.11, BMI 22.9 (Or was before my holiday - not weighing myself again till I've done a few fast days!). I lost 2 stone just by deciding to eat mindfully and recording everything I ate and drank. The rest has been 5:2ing since Jan this year.

I just drink water as I figured lemonade or coke (only once in a blue moon wasn't worth the calories and isn't healthy). Am I right in thinking chicken and fish are protein. Would like macaroni cheese with pancetta as a treat one time.

That was for MissS specifically and anyone else who wants a lecture!

Tip Ooh, good offer, thank you! I'm not averse to buying it but weekly is too much info for my poor little brain

MissS Macaroni cheese & pancetta is an excellent NFD meal! Go for it x

I love avocado so will get some. Just waste so many as they aren't ripe and then go too far! I feel I have made huge progress by only eating when hungry so need to get my head around finding a way to eat the 1807 when at the moment it feels like that is more than my body is wanting. The treat cupboard has been full for ages as I haven't wanted any of it but now and again is okay though I will be looking at alternatives. Next Mon-Wed I won't be fasting so will fast Sat or Sun before I go and Thursday when I get back.

Yay for macaroni cheese! Looking like DS1 wants to stay in today so will have it another day as I can make it from scratch but have no pancetta in.

Who asked about miracle noodles? Those zero/ eat-water/ shirataki ones.

Hopeful, I get REALLY tired at about 10 if not sooner, on a FD. I enjoy an early night a great night's sleep.

Hi blue2 until reading your post, I hadn't noticed how much better my ibs has been so thank you for mentioning yours.

I have eaten emotionally for years. Not eating when angry with myself and gorging to fill the sad-space within me the rest of the time. Though this is the first time I have consciously taken control of my eating, I have ranged between a size ten and a size eighteen over tge lsst twenty years. It has taken counselling to be able to start taking control. To care enough about myself to want to improve my health. It sounds like counselling may also be useful for you. My life, to me, was perfectly normal and anything that had gone wrong was entirely my fault. It is only through counselling that I've started to see myself as a normal person who has had a life lacking emotional support and containing several very stressful periods of time.

My point is that you need to want to improve your life because you love and care for yourself rather than change it as a punishment for what you don't like about yourself. Hope that makes sense and I haven't overstepped any boundaries.

You can do this.

Oh - and since I'm being brutally honest - MissS eat some food. I agree re nuts and seeds - very filling. Also lean protein, eat more of it.

TiP I am going to actually log every mouthful on MFP for the next week or two to gauge how I'm doing.

Problem is, that I want to do 5:2 because it DOESN'T calorie count. I've already had 400 odd calories for breakfast and I'm now panicking about what else I can eat for the rest of the day. (I need to up my essential oils as my skin is v dry, so I had a bit of smoked trout, hence high calorie)

I do eat much more fish and shellfish now. It used to be once a week, if that, but now its x2 or x3 a week. Its my answer to producing supper for 3 for under 500 cals each without arousing any suspicion!

I have a veg garden bursting with stuff to eat, so lots of veg atm.

However, all the calorie counting is like being back at WW again, and that's precisely where I DON'T want to be!

I suspect that I am going to have to 'bite the bullet' and just log, log and log calories. It makes me so depressed .

Oh, I do 3 x dance classes a week and walk 2 dogs every day, so am no couch potato!

blue
its less "counting" - in that if your meal takes you over you go over and finish enjoying the meal
but next time alter the recipe

I used it to test the content of sauces before deciding which one to have
and to think whether I wanted lasagna or spag bol
or to compare the protein in different meats
it then becomes more of a game of
"how much fun can I have within an upper limit"

if you roughly log and find you are at TDEE + 30%
then look long and hard
if its plus 10% then tweak
if its plus 5% then my analysis of your weight plateau is wrong

I hear you!! But I am eating!! Just not making the calories so will look at doing that.

Need a shopping list I think as stuck for ideas.

Will salad, cheese and salami be fine later?

Torn up lettuce, sliced tomatoes, sliced pimento, grated carrot, strips of salami, olives, shavings of cheese on top, nice dressing, a couple of croutons (slice of bread torn up and lightly fried in olive oil)

my grandmothers classic lunch salad :
cover a plate with lettuce, then slices of tomato, then make a ball of cottage cheese, dot cubes of ham, salami and olives all the way round it, dash of pepper on top, serve with a slice of wholemeal bread

do you have a lidl near you : get some of the jars of pimentos and grilled aubergine to chop onto salads and make them nom

In my old trying to lose weight days I would have thought salami, cheese, croutons and ham were too high in calories .

Not sure what pimento is and we don't have a lidl but a lot of other supermarkets so will be looking there.

I have been cheating and buying ready made salads and have discovered how nice a bit of balsamic vinegar is on salads. Loads of olives in as the kids love them. Definitely want to try some tinned fish choices as I love fish and it is brain food!

I had the same problem as you miss strawberry recently - id got into a habit of eating too little and was full eating massive portions of veg. I was reluctant to stop incase i put loads of weight on - see back a couple of threads for everyone setting me straight :) i was scared because ive been lucky andweight fell off early on, but it had slowed right down because i wasnt eating anywhere near enough nutritious things everyone has suggested here, because like you i was scared of how many calories there were in them. I had a week off on holiday, came back and calorie counted some nfds to make sure i was eating enough an now its back to falling off again :)

I have had breakfast, snack and lunch and now on 900 eek.

Lunch was salad, anchovies, 3 slices of edam, 1 slice of seeded bread and some stilton with strawberries.

Feeling totally confident I have gone too far the other way. Feel full. Don't want to eat any more. I am also finding that when I drink water in the evenings it is like I am literally full and can only sip it.

Thanks for your input tryinghard2. That is really helpful .