The 5:2 thread number 25- One year on from Dr Mosley's Horizon ep!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through our very own fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Swimming on a FD is a silly thing. I won't do that again
come back to it once yoyr routines are settled
in term time I swim a mile every morning on an empty stomach
I'm used to it

had meant to be good today but DH has a not quite broken finger and needed wine so I kept him company

Helles
Lesson planning : look up the vagus nerve feedback system and some of the recent New Scientist articles about how what food you eat affects your mood
absolutely fascinating
cutting edge
will affect all of your pupils
and the Nobels are up for grabs in twenty years time to the brightest

DH helped a teacher look at the curriculum in terms of Nobels yet to be won and it fired her and her pupils up
Endocrine system has at last ten brewing in the next 8 years ....

I agree the program was misguided - a diet is something to do to get you lose the weight like ERD says, it's not about the more difficult forever period of maintaining, and I didn't like the finger-pointing at the diet industry that Nurse mentions. I'd like to see a program on the plethora of reasons why so many people fall of the wagon again and again - that would be truly helpful, I think.

Quite fancied Jacques, though...

There's two more episodes to go anyway so maybe it'll get better. It's back on tomorrow on BBC2.

Hi all

Fd for me today, been fairly ok despite a very heavy weekend food wise.
I've been aiming to lose weight for a wedding at the end of August, I tried my dress on the other day and I was very surprised to discover that it's looking a bit big, well,thats never happened to me before , so as a result I'm not trying to lose weight these next 2 weeks as I really don't want to buy a new dress or have this one altered. It's really annoying though as its just started coming off again after a 2 month stall, typical! I'm kinda toying with losing weight anyway as its so pleasing for something to be too big for me!

Got some stats for those who are interested:

Started 5:2
4 feb 196Ibs 32bmi (obese)
10 aug 163Ibs 25 bmi (overweight)
Next goal is 147Ibs (hopefully by oct)

Jacques Peretti is between a rock and a hard place.
Lots of anecdotes do not make evidence
And we are lots of anecdotes.
So he has to revert back to the peer reviewed "evidence"

including abominations like the Minnesota "starvation mode" debacle.
The more I read on that the more it annoys me.

It would be entirely possible to set up a properly controlled study using EU life term prisoners controlling all aspects of their diet in conditions no worse than they ever expect to experience but with the possibility of enhanced parole rights after ten years
to really, really test these things
and consent could be easily explained and arranged (and costs would be covered by reduced junk food bills)

BUT
nobody in the industry wants the wheels coming off the current bandwagon

TIP As a lowly SEND HLTA, I only plan for the bottom 10% of the year group. The focus is on meeting the BTEC criteria while developing knowledge that will be useful in later life. The students I'm planning for have reading ages of less than ten (they're 15-16) and most have other learning difficulties too.

Ooh, ooh, could you get them to do food and cooking diaries for themselves and their friends
and link it into maths with shopping and looking up the cost per meal of things

• life skills
• science
• diet

and the really fun one : get them to design a proper Roman menu (hint : it will not have any tomato or potato or peppers in it) I had a right rant about that Biff and Chip book

Lesson 1's homework involves keeping a food diary which, in lesson 2, they will divide the ingredients into food groups ( to decide if their diet is balanced) and calorie-count (to decide if they're under- or overeating. They then need to develop an improved version of it that is balanced and calorifically appropriate to their height and age.

Just have to say, i don't envy all you teachers! As an ex secondary school science teacher (decided it wasn't for me when i nearly broke my hand hitting a table in anger, better than hitting the pupil i was shouting at though!) i totally sympathise with lesson planning in your supposedly long & unnecessary holidays for you all.

Reasonable FD here, did succumb to a couple of very skinny breadsticks & DD's leftovers (1 tablespoon of pasta & veg) so partly annoyed, but did manage to turn down amazing looking square of millionaires shortbread at work so happy with that :)

JB30 i think we're fasting twins, i sabotaged last week's fast with a molten chocolate brownie & now I'm nearing my first mini goal have started eating more crap. Need to get back on it especially as off to Ireland for a week's holiday so will have to try & avoid being force-fed by DH's family.

nursezza the one piece i took away from the whole show was the WW ex financial director pointing out the reason people don't keep the weight off is psychological. They think, yep I've lost weight & am happy now so back to old habits. By loosing slowly on this wol I'm hoping that's the bit i can fix so for once i don't just gain it all back :)

always I liked him more than anyone on that programme. He was the only one honest enough to admit there was a vested interest in people going back to what they're selling. That's also why I like this woe, its teaching me that treating myself isn't a bad thing but I shouldn't be treating myself constantly. Nothing else came close to making me figure that out.

Tip Oh bugger, I think you mentioned that issue of New Scientist just before I went away and I meant to grab a copy... what sort of titles did the articles have so I can try and look them up?

I very strongly believe in a link between mood and food so would be interesting to read some science on it. Before 5:2, sugar in the evening would make me angry the morning after, for example. I noticed other effects from other foods too.

I kept a food diary for a long time and would note moods if notable.

I say 'before 5:2' as now I am far less likely to have crap of any kind in the evening.

I also strongly believe that my digestive system is now able to cope far better with crap as (a) it's occasional and (b) it gets regular breaks.

I did have half a bottle of wine with dinner though... as someone upthread said (sorry forgotten who ) I had it as it is neither a fast day today or tomorrow , and I'm trying to extend the holiday vibe a little...

TBH I drank it 'cause my DH opened it

Betsybell
www.newscientist.com/article/mg21929282.200-food-vs-you-how-your-dinner-controls-you.html
and
www.newscientist.com/article/mg21929252.200-vagus-thinking-meditate-your-way-to-better-health.html

if you sub to it you can get the full articles online ...

Hellesbelles, as a Senco/specialist teacher' you are a goddess. Genuflects :)

alwaysanauntie like you I was concerned about maintenance and wondered if the weight would go back on as it has done so many times before.

I wonder, when is maintenance classed as successful? Is it months, years or forever?
I'm in my 13th week of maintenance and still within 2lbs of my lowest weight and it still surprises me every time I jump on the scales (still weekly after a fast day).

As time passes I realise that this woe has become 'normal' and it never ever occurs to me to return to my old habits before 5:2. I know that disaster awaits me if I go there so I just tell myself to carry on as a) I'm not gaining b) I am getting health benefits and c) I'm so used to fasting now, I don't feel right if I miss a fast day.
I can honestly say that it's not a struggle as it has been after past 'diets' and I am still eating everything I want but just in moderation

Wow I love hearing from long timers. I completed my 4th fast day yesterday and found the late afternoon challenging. I am job hunting at the moment so can have some quite long unstructured time which previously I have filled with grazing...
What I really like is the day after fasting when I really enjoy food but don't feel like overeating.

Hi all, posting for accountability after a week off. Didn't stack on the weight too much - last time I took a whole week off I overindulged and bounced up 5 lbs. This time it's 2-3 lbs, which is my standard bounce after the week's fasts are done. So hopefully it counts as a 'maintenance' week.

Hungry now, though. And bored. I can deal with the hunger with very little problem, but fast days are so dull. I use food as entertainment a lot, I think.

Had a lovely fast dinner last night using those miracle noodles. I dry-fried some scallops, mushrooms, spring onion and aspargus with a good squeeze of lime juice alongside the noodles, then stirred everything together with a glug of light coconut milk and a spoonful of tom-yum paste.

Melanie Miracle Noodles?

Brambles I'm a higher-level teaching assistant meaning that, as well as normal TA stuff I plan and deliver interventions and, every so often plan lessons. I think it's supposed to act as an examplar to non-send teachers of differentiation for a class with reading abilities ranging through the primary levels -ie nowhere near age apprpopriate. I work in a normal secondary school so the teachers work with the full range of abilities and do not get the opportunities I get to focus purely on the students who struggle to understand a lot of what we put in front of them.

I'm a primary SENCo and full time Y1 teacher, can I be a goddess too? Respect to you hells I know junior teachers who struggle to plan for less able pupils e.g. the non-readers with multiple difficulties.

Anyone fasting today? Not me! tortoise it sounds like you have this under control, hope I achieve the same after two weeks off although I have given myself 5lbs of 'bounce allowance'!

You guys are awesome, helles belles. I have a fab team around me, couldn't do what I do without them. I agree, it's great to focus on a few children, bringing them on really well in terms of confidence as well as academic ability.

Back to diet stuff. Top up fast day was Mon. This was post-toast for many meals and I felt really bloated at 10.7! (Target is 10.2-10.4). Good fd, went over a bit to 700. Ate normally yesterday although did two hours strenuous hill walking. Today I am two days post fast (drum roll) back to 10.2 :)

Waves at postman pats cat. I'm a primary Senco and work p/t doing just that. In my other role I'm an sen consultant which is fascinating.

HellesBelles, PPC, Brambles I work with SEN pupils too :)

I think a 'diet' should be considered successful if it creates a positive, healthier lifestyle change. I like HB's Life Style Victory concept very much - might pinch that for a future thread title if you don't mind!

Tip Thanks for the links - I can't afford the subs sadly but I found a copy on ebay - saved me from scouring through people's recycling bins

Wow! Shredding this morning was so difficult after yesterday's fd but my energy levels picked up as I worked my way through so I'm glad I did it.

Feeling very decadent sfter a 400 calorie breakfast of thincut wholemeal toast with a boiled egg and a second slice with nutella. Day-after food is the best :)

Morning all.

Had busy morning sorting through DS2 and DD's clothes to see what they have, what needs trying on as looks small and packing for our trip away. If every thing they need to try on is too small I will need to go shopping. This is week is expensive. Accidently spent £99 in Waitrose yesterday when we went for bread and milk, £56 on petrol as the car was thirsty. Appointment tomorrow at the podiatry clinic that could be £110 or £405 and need to buy going to visit you present for one, a birthday present for one and Christmas presents for 2 to save posting them later in the year. So clothes on top for DD and DS2 when DS1 already needs a new school bag, a jumper and a pair of jeans plus the B&B and petrol to get there. I think I need a lie down...

Does anyone else feel tired late afternoon on a fast day? Or is it because I woke up super early? On my fast days I have felt really tired late afternoon/early evening. I have heard others say how "energising" the fast days are, but I am not feeling it. I drink so much tea too, that might not be such a good thing, especially as I am ttc too.

DH and I decided to do Mondays and Thursdays as our fast days, but this week he is away for work on Thursday, so we are doing it today (it's already Wednesday on the southern hemisphere). Although I don't find the hunger a big challenge, I do find the fatigue a challenge. It has helped me realise, though, that I use food as a crutch when I am tired.

Please tell me I will see some results soon. I kept a log of everything I had on my non-fast day and I was well under my TDEE, so why has there only been a loss of 0.2 of a kilogram after 5 fast days (today is my 6th)? Although the scales aren't reflecting what I'd like to see, I do feel my tummy is flatter and clothes are loosish, so I guess that's a non-scale victory?

Would you believe I also work with students with learning difficulties, though not SEN. My students are Indigenous students who fall below benchmark (I am in Australia). I just thought it is an amazing coincidence that so many on this thread are teachers.

I love reading the thread and hearing about other's experiences. I have about 10 kilos to put me into a healthy BMI, and it was really nice to think, today, if I keep this up, I might actually lose that much by Christmas.Am I deluding myself?