The 5:2 Thread number 20! Officially a score.

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

I have been bouncing up and down for a month now, losing and gaining the same couple of pounds. I gave myself a good talking to and looked at my NFDs. I realised that I was getting carried away with being able to 'eat anything I like' and was! I recently discovered Aldi and Lidl biscuits and was eating them all the time, even though I never really ate biscuits before . I was also eating a lot of carbs on my NFDS which I know my body does not like (but I do).

So I planned to fast Mon and Tues this week and be aware of what I eat today. I weighed this morning and am back to my lowest since doing this WOE . Have six weeks until my holiday and really want to be slimmer and in control of my eating; wish me luck!

Chester, that made me really laugh. Bet your weight goes down now that AF has arrived, though.

SAF, squeeee! How exciting! If/when I can decide that I am definitely done with having children, breast reduction surgery is next on the agenda. I have wanted a reduction forever but didn't want to mess up breastfeeding (or risk them re-growing, which has happened to friends who've put on lots of weight, including via pregnancy, after surgery). How many sizes down are you going? I'm so pleased for you!

I do agree with taking it sensibly with weight loss, though. It won't help to have lost unsustainably and then have it back on.

Tortoise Thanks for your reply regarding TDEE and your indian calorie count. When I have the weekly takeaway I have half a small tin of curry, half a small tin of egg fried rice and half a bag of their chips. So yes I have half a small, although this fills a biggish dinner plate.

One of my downfalls is tea on NFD.I Love one and a half sugars in it. Have tried to buy sweeteners but after reading so many health horror stories maybe I am better sticking to the real thing. Any one else have sugary tea on NFD?

Swallowed Oh dear, I guess every contraceptive other than condoms may cause weight gain then. Ahh.

Eliza Have you found that doing a Monday and Tuesday consecutive fast you have lost more than you would have generally doing it with gaps in?

eliza well done....positive thoughts for us guys sticking.

How long did you stall for?

aftereights love to read things like that! Thanks for posting.

The only fast days that worked out this week were Monday & today - so it's my first try at fasting with only one day's break between. But my weight is down & I'm motivated to keep up with the two fasts/week. So I'll be drinking lots of water & trying not to be grumpy with the kids.

I generally weigh in on a Monday morning when I assume I'm at my heaviest (the longest possible time from my last fast). And the weight is coming off slow & steady.

Ha, fasty, I do M/W and I weigh in Thurs morning when I assume I'm at lightest. You're more of a purist than I.

Whatever keeps you going, tortoise! I reckon if I like the results at my 'heaviest' point, then it's going well overall. I'm too lazy to average things out over the week... although that's probably more accurate than either of our methods.

I don't know how you do Mon/Wed - I'm feeling hungry! But it's just a day, so I can ignore it.

what I want to know is if / when does the short temper stop? I have been doing the 5/2 for a month and I have lost the 3 kgs I wanted too but on my FD's I am really short-tempered with the kids (yes, even more so than normal). Whilst I love being thinner, being a good Mum is more important to me! Any experiences that it gets better?

cupcake I think I did lose more doing consecutive fasts and it was not as difficult as I thought it would be

monster I only went about 2 weeks without any real loss but then 2 weeks bouncing about and thinking I was losing only to put it back on.

I think the real lesson I have learnt is to be sensible on NFDs. I never ate biscuits, cakes and chocolate before I started fasting so I have no idea why I suddenly thought I could do it now and lose weight!

As I said upstream I will be more aware this week of what I eat and see how that goes.

shouty yes, I found that improved - it bothers me progressively less, and the fasting impacts my mood much less. I think the key is to not deprive yourself on NFDs (don't go crazy, but eat 2,000 calories, have a slice of cake). If you are constantly expending your willpower, seven days a week, then you will get grumpy and fast days will be worse. Dunno, that's how it's worked out for me, anyway.

shouty the time by which I get shouty at my kids gets later and later each fast day. Come 6pm I'm still desperate for OH to come through the door and spare me, but I'm definitely calming down.

Thanks, I will hold on in there. Hopefully my terrible day yesterday was kist made worse by an indulgent bank holiday beforehand. FD tomorrow so we'll see what happens!

I am definitely not depriving myself on NFDs ;) What this WOE means for me is that rather than having to abstain from cakes/choccies/biscuits and other things I enjoy completely, I prefer abstaining for 2 days and getting to eat the yummy stuff in moderation for the other 5.

SAF Im currently recovering from a breast reduction and lift, had it done last week, just eat normally but healthily as you will need to be strong and healthy for a quick recovery, and you will have bloating from the anaesthetic for a week or two afterwards. Just be kind to yourself as its a big op. and your motivation afterwards will be high to maintain your new body and heal well.
My torso already looks longer and I think I look taller, that in itself makes you look slimmer!
Good luck! X

Eliza The last two weeks I have done consecutive fasting on a monday and tuesday. I worried because after those days I would be normally eating for the remaining 5, I assumed I wouldn't lose like those having a gap in between. However lost 2lb this week :D

I do get confused though when to weigh myself, cus maybe the day after the two consecutive fasts I will be low, but at the end of the week be higher again. Don't know which day would be the most representative.

I'm another fast day weigher. I reckon its more representative as it will show nfd damage! Though I weigh in the morning which may mean I'm lower than later in the day when I could put on water weight. But this was when I first weighed myself when starting this woe, so I know any loss shown is representative.

aftereights fantastic loss! How much more till goal weight?

Despite being at MIL's during half term and not thinking I'd get any fasts in this week, today has turned out to be a FD. Hurrah! Won't be able to stick to 500 cals for the "break fast" meal tonight but glad I've been able to put my body into repair mode at least once this gluttonous week.

cupcake if I remember correctly the reasoning behind not having consecutive fasts is that it may be too difficult, not that it won't have the same effect. We all have to do what we can deal with. This is the first time I have done it this way and have been very careful today but I have found it easy and feel better in myself than I did when I was eating 'normally' after a fast day. My 'normal' may just be too much!

Time will tell if I carry on this way, I will see how it goes

chocupid i have pm'd you - hope you don't mind

right. doing ok on a zero fast so far. have also decided i will give up all alcohol before the op and until i've recovered a bit.

i'm thinking a zero fast to kick start things today then a lean protein and veg only day tomorrow as in eat what i want quantity wise but make it ALL good food. then keep going with ADF.

i 'think' that as long as i cram good, nutritious food in non fast days i will be well nourished and healthy enough for surgery but still lose a decent amount of weight. does that sound ok do you think? realistically i will probably be better nourished from doing that than from usual eating habits i'm going to stock up on veg.

i'm also going to fit a massage in next week sometime if i can as my back is killing after a long break from having them and it may have it's usual effect of helping me shed a couple of pounds virtually overnight. besides which i am mega stressed and could probably do with the chill out.

I haven't managed a fast since last wednesday and was pretty despondant after that as I remained stuck at the previous week's weight. Have eaten loads over the last few days, felt almost bingey which isn't like me at all. Started my period today so hope that explains it. Anyway, just wondering how to get myself back into the rythym of things...I've just eaten lunch today, no breakfast and am planning to do a zero fast until tomorrow lunch time. I still don't feel like I can face a proper 500 cal fast and am telling myself that I'll start again next week when the kids are back at school. I need proof this WOE is going to work for me!! Definitely not in the zone at the moment...

well done to all of you doing so well..it is inspirational to read your stories

well done aftereights

saf how exciting! I was a student nurse in a former life and I know that they weigh the tissue removed - drastic but instant weight loss! Hope all goes well for you.

Back home after three nights away and too much food. I put my breakfast into MFP this morning and it came to 477cals so I thought today might as well be a fast day to get me back in the swing of things. Easy not to eat when you're on the motorway and off to the gym later after an average step count of under 2000 a day since Sunday!

I usually fast Monday and Wednesday despite being at goal but maybe once is enough this week. If not, I'll do Saturday too.

i am having a panic as i asked my mum to have ds for the weekend of my surgery and she says she is very busy that weekend - i really do not want to have to tell her why, deal with the negativity and beg but i don't know who else to ask. it is too much to ask the mother of his friend to have him for two nights isn't it? she knows i was waiting on a date and i think she would say yes but i feel like it is way too much to ask??? sorry for off topic me, me, me.

saf Good luck with the surgery .I agree with Betsy, this is quite major surgery youre having ( Im a nurse and have experience of this both personally and professionally )The best thing you can do for your body to aid recovery, the healing process and prevent complications is to eat a well balanced diet.Protein especially good to help with wound healing (lots of lovely fish and eggs) afterwards. It sounds as if your plan is a good one.
its already been said but you will probably lose a considerable amount from the surgery alone and you may even find that your back - ache will
disappear too!
aftereights how inspirational to read your post, Thankyou.

monster im one of the unlucky ones who has stalled a bit.I stalled the first time after only a couple of weeks as well... my weight did not move for 3-4 weeks. I changed my fasting days in the end ,but also because of the Bank holidays in May..so far since then the weight has been moving downwards..still only very slowly ( average 0.75 lb per week and nothing if its TOM .)
so 17 / 18 weeks of this and 11 lbs down. But Ive rediscovered size 12 trousers that I thought Id never wear again..dont give up ..slowly does it..the tortoise wins the race and all that.

For the person who asked whats the best time to weigh( sorry forgot who it was ) ,I think it doesnt matter whether its pre or post fast as long as its the same time of day once a week , or monthly or 2 monthly naked . I always weigh in the morning after my 2nd fast. every Friday morning as soon as Im up after a pee, before eating .
sorry for long post..well done if you bothered reading.
Good luck to Thursday fasters.. Im off to have a nice dinner now!

Saf I'd do it if a single mum friend was asking - you're only talking 1 DS who isn't that young (I don't think anyway!). You can but ask, from how you are on here I can't possibly imagine you're usually a burden on others in any way and I'm sure the other mum would be happy to help. If she can't then she can't but she'd be mortified if you didn't ask because you were assuming she wouldn't want to iyswim :)