The 5:2 Diet Thread number 19! Cup of tea? or three?

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Forkoff Yes - that'll make over 1800 cals per day which sounds about right. What a lot of us do is under eat some days so we've got some 'spare' for the weekend when we might have bigger meals, puddings & more wine!

I don't count calories at all anymore but it's worth doing for a bit to see what a normal day's eating looks like, and you quickly learn how much energy is in different foods. Are you aiming to eat healthier generally? (I ask, with no idea what you normally eat!) I think it's important to maximise your nutrition so if you have spare calories boost up your eating with some raw nuts and seeds, full fat yogurt etc, rather than biscuits. (I actually think biscuits are a bit evil, they're unhealthy calorie bombs and too easy to eat more than you mean too.) Try and make every calorie count for something towards a better you. I don't know if you've got exercise plans too but once you start feeling healthier with better eating you'll want to get active too - even if it's just walking a bit further each day, choosing a bike ride or walk over a drive or bus. Small changes add up to a big difference - I've lost nearly 50lbs over 20 months that way!

Just realised there's a new series of Secret Eaters on 4OD, I love that programme - often plenty of food for thought in there.

I was going to go for a 24hr fast today. Bloody double glazing salesmen kept us busy (we need new windows so they were invited, so I should really blame OH!) so didn't eat till 9:30 last night. I'm not waiting till then to eat tonight, so I shall be aiming for a 22hr fast.

forkoff I try to keep under 1900 on NFD and find that more often than not I'm well under and a few times over. I do like to use spare calories for a treat though, as long as I'm not feeling hungry still by the end of the day.

Yes, I definitely need to improve my diet generally. I trough lots of sugary crap throughout the day - I'm currently on ML so the lack of structure is not my friend.

I know before I start that my issues are going to be tiredness (neither DD nor DS are good sleepers), BFing (though DS is 6mo so I'm willing to scale that back if need be) and lack of time to exercise - that's partly because of the sleep and bedtime issues but mainly because I'm working on some assessment contracts for the next two months. I've asked DH for a Jawbone Up wristband for my birthday to help me get more active day to day.

Perhaps I should wait a while until I'm in a better position to start, but I feel that carrying on with my current bad habits is doing neither my body nor my self esteem (and therefore my DCs) any favours.

I'm quite excited about this. I've started and dropped WW endlessly between and after DCs. I want a change for life.

Thanks for the advice re: TDEE

Does anyone know if there is a way to prgramme My Fitness Pal to recognise that I want to eat 1300 cals a day for 5 days a week and 500 for two? At the moment, I am just using it as a calculator and also not entering my excercise as it then 'gives me back' those calories and I don't want it to.

Good luck to everyone fasting today

forkoff I understand totally where you're coming from and it took me till my kids were a bit older to get myself sorted - but having said that I piled on the weight while they were babies and toddlers so if you can avoid that and have the motivation to get going then you should.

Why don't you start with MFP and some more activity? Maybe leave the fasting till later when you've got better habits in place. You sound like you really want to get started with some changes and this is a very supportive place to do that! You could work up to fasting with some lower calorie days here and there - days where you avoid the obvious sugary things and carbs - say aim for 900? Half your TDEE. I think it will help with the tiredness and lift your mood, sugar just doesn't work even though we crave it to pick us up a bit.

Oh, I am another Secret Eaters fan and have been watching this series. Can see some of my own behaviour in some of the people too - e.g. mindlessly popping bits in my mouth while cooking/ preparing meals.

In fact since starting this WOE I seem to be watching way too many food programmes and reading lots of recipe books. Even if I am fasting, my subconscious mind is definitely still thinking about food. Oh dear!

To be honest I've tried MFP as a stand alone but I don't have the willpower. 5:2 appeals because food becomes a non-issue on fast days. I think I'll probably aim for 600 cals as one meal in the evening so I've got energy for work, and perhaps around 1900 on NFDs, and just see how I cope with that and how the milk production goes.

Thanks for your interest by the way

slightlyjaded I know you can set it to 1300 calories, but I don't know if you can customise that far. I just use it as a calculator too and pay attention to the gross calorie count.

jaded if you set MFP to maintenance and activity to your normal without exercise, you can then eat the allowance shown on NFDs, and ignore the fact that you've got loads of cals left over on fast days (and the 'you're not eating enough' message too). If you also put your exercise in, your weekly deficit will be much more accurate and that can be a motivating number to keep an eye on (e.g. mine is usually around 4500).

betsy you are spot on about bastard biscuits. They are evil.

I am on a FD and just been grocery shopping. That wasn't easy!
Had to eat half an apple when I got home. Whoop whoop!
Chicken broth tonight.
I might as well have a coffee with skim milk as this isn't a total fast.

I wonder if I can manage 4:3 next week too.

Biscuits can be a bit dry and tasteless...but jaffa cakes are the devil's own work

Grrr...I hate it when scales get it in their heads to trick me! Really good fast day yesterday, much enjoyed it, had a speculative weigh-in this morning and after plateauing for three or four weeks, was overjoyed to be down 5lbs. Then double checked for good measure and it was only 3lbs. Am still happy, but not as happy as I was! But on the upside, have not been at all hungry this morning and have just left half my lunch. Unheard of! I've been doing 4:3 very happily (usually Mon, Weds and Fri, but not this week): may embark on my first 36 hour fast next week, feeling ready. Happy weekend everyone!

Hi all. Just wanted to say a big well done to ELR Betsy & silver beetle

I use MFP to keep a general eye on how my eating's going, though I don't record exercise or wine.

You can't customise it to different calorie levels for different days. But you don't have to press the button at the end of the day to close out out your diary (and so trigger the You Are Starving! lie). Al the details are still retained.

ooh, and another NSV for me today! I went down another belt notch, that's three notches down since mid Feb.

Wow, that's great to hear about all the losses that are going on - I guess Friday is a popular weigh-in day before a weekend of NFD? Makes sense. Am totally empathising the plateauers - that's always happened to me before when I've tried to lose weight, usually tantalisingly close to a significant landmark weight.

I am having a fast day today, third one, am struggling a bit. Am dog tired - DS2 was up 6 or 7 times in the night feverish, and although he generally is up a few times (he's nearly 18 months, am tearing my hair out), I seem to be feeling it today. I haven't had much to drink, so that's probably not helping. I do feel determined to last though, although my plan for a nice low-cal ready meal this evening has gone - I'm taking the kids out for a Maccy D's at their request. If I can have a chicken salad and a small fries and a diet coke to fill me up, I'll actually come in ok. But then I might have to go to bed at 7.30pm so I don't succumb to the evening hungers!

Just a quick post to say well done all you losers and keep going everyone else.

I'm maintaining now but can't seem to stop the 5:2 habit and have dropped another 2 lbs this week despite it being TOM week, so am 3lbs under target weight. I figure I can keep going if I want to as I'm nowhere near skinny territory (which totally wouldn't suit me),

So a total of 4 stones 12 lbs lost since early last year and of that amount 1 stone 8 lbs doing 5:2.

Anyone who's seen my stats (on earlier threads) will know I've had quite a few stalls during that time including a spectacularly long 4 month stall but I kept on going.

Just keep on going folks, even through the stalls and bounces. If you're diligent, consistent and patient you'll get there.

woo hoo.

weighed myself again at work today (on the proper electronic scales that we weigh the patients on).

so Monday I was 64.3kg

Today I am 62.9kg.

I feel lighter. I feel amazing tbh. Its not even been hard!!

BsshBossh that's an excellent loss. I need to bear in mind what you said about bounces and stalls as that's one of my big downfalls.

Well done tiredemma.

When do people generally weigh?

I weigh on fast day mornings. I reckon that then I don't get any fake lows from a fast day and also i'll have had a few nfd under my belt so hopefully I wont see a bounce. That could be twisted logic though.

That's amazing BsshBossh - I think I just need to keep going through the bounces and believe that this will work.

I usually weigh the day after a fast but beginning to think I should just weigh once a week to stop being excited by false lows and then depressed by the bounce back up.

Congratulations everyone on their losses!
I was wondering if anyone else is left with loose skin on their stomach, the unforseen downside of rapid weight loss. I've dropped 3 dress sizes and over 20 pounds since starting this woe at the beginning of January and I am of course really pleased about that. But, though I look much better now that I'm wearing size 12 jeans, I'm afraid a bikini is still out of the question because of the flabby skin on my stomach. I'd like to add that I exercice at least 3 times a week, do abs almost daily. Is there anything else I should do? By the way, I'm 46 and put on a lot of weight during my two pregnancies.

well done all the losers and dotty 10 st 11 ! woo hoo. Even if you do bounce up abit by Monday , you know after 2 fasts next week it'll be back down again.
My weight has gone up by 0.5 lb this week but its been TOM and that seems to be the pattern with me.. Started the week at at 10 st 11 and weighed in today at 10 st 6.5 lb.Still only 9-10 lb loss over 15 weeks . But my NSV is that Im now a dress size smaller than I was at start of this. I got a new dress for a party next week,it arrived today and looks fab( even if I say so myself!)
Have a great w/e of normal eating all non fasters...

No advice vieenrose though I understand that it can take up to a year for sink to shrink to fit your new body.

I've lost 29lbs on 5:2, but my skin isn't really that saggy. TBH I wore a bikini even when I was overweight so it certainly won't stop me now.

vieenrose Hmm, I have the same problem - my lower abdomen is like a deflated balloon where all my pregnancy stretch marks are. As long as I wear a bikini that isn't too skimpy it looks ok though. [waits to hear if anyone else has found a solution]

Thanks greenfig I seem to have celebrated by eating cake (the pieces I didn't eat on yesterday's fast day - yes the DH's too, mwah ha ha) and now I'm chomping through some chocolate . Oh well.

Bssh Do you find yourself in slight disbelief at what you've achieved? I know I'm finding it odd coming to terms with being a slim person rather than a permanently overweight one. I'm also finding I'm looking at people who I thought to be impossibly slender a year ago and realising that they no longer look like a separate species - either that or they've all got fatter! (They haven't).

I love this WOE. And these threads .