The 5:2 Diet Thread number 19! Cup of tea? or three?

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Tortoise I'm continuing to fast for the health benefits but also because fasting makes me feel energetic and clear-headed. I'm Indian so perhaps I'm genetically pre-disposed towards enjoying fasting .

PS Tortoise I still eat fried chicken (though homemade), pizza, chocolate, crisps.

Did somebody say fried chicken???

tortoise I enjoy it! Three NFDs in a row, and I couldn't wait to fast today. Yes, for the weight loss, but I too love how I feel when fasting. Never thought I would ever say that!

Struggling and only day 1 wanted to try do 4/3 with today being 1st fast day.

im on my 3rd cup coffee skimmed milk but 2teapoons sugar 30cals a cup then.
.
for breckfast well brunch as was after am school run.

1small wholegrain 400g slice of bread as toast 85cals
sliver of low fat butter
1scrambled egg with dash of skimmed milk.
some mushrooms which are low cal and low carb
so guess around 200caks for brunch

3coffees=reckon least 100cals.

where I went horribly wrong is is making lunch for kids

had 1 low far wrap 130cals with tiny bit grated cheese and some cherry tomatoes so estimate that to possibly be 200-250cals not sure.

so already im up to 500cals and feel hungry.

was hoping to make homemade soup and have 1 small brown roll for dinner but that would push me over.

could this plan work if was on 800cals rather than 500?

or should i just drink water for rest of day.

was going to do day 1step 1 of shred as younger 2preschool but ended up answering emails and wasting time. guess if gets all 3kids bed early could do it later.

have 2mile walk to do this afternoon as 2schools 1.2miles apart.
eldest primary school 1.2miles from my house each way so already walked 2miles this morning but dont think walking alone is enough need to get back into exercise again. hubbys on late not sure what time hes home and looks like rain so would have gone for a run.

havent really starved at all today but feel really hungry is this normal?

mam it is normal to feel hungry when you're first starting out. It does get easier though. You need to find your way of dealing with it. I personally drink water and if the pangs get too much I go for a diet cola or a tea, so something more flavourful. For some reason it seems to trick my brain a bit. I found eating for brekkie made it worse so I try to go through until dinner now.

Don't think starting off with 800 cals is going to do much harm either, you can aim to cut down to 500 as you get more into it.

mam it's your first ever fast day, of course 800 cals is fine. Don't write today off, it will get easier for you as you do more and get used to it.

I think Breadandwine, who is our veteran faster here started off on 1000 cals for his early fasts. Now he can go a few days without food!

mam, I'm new to this as well, but my first day's fast was probably around 650 in the end, and the next was about 550. Today I'm aiming for 500. Not sure if I'm right about this, but I think part of the point of it is reducing your calorie intake as a kind of 'detox', and making sure to go without any calories for at least 16hrs at some point, to allow your cells to repair. I have been trying to have dinner around 7pm on a FD, then not eat breakfast the next NFD day to give me a 16hr+ stretch.

Have I got that right?

mam you are doing just fine, some people need to go down gradually until they reach 500 cals. This is not a competition but a very flexible woe which when you get used to it is wonderful.
Here's a tip, as you do more fasts, try to push breakfast back an hour at a time until you are missing it out altogether. Then try the same with lunch if you can until you are just eating an evening meal of 500 ish. We do this because once you start eating it seems as though a 'hunger switch' turns on and makes us more hungry.
If you can't manage to go all day until evening, still try to miss breakfast as you may find this easier to stick with.
Good luck

mam also try to eat more protein and cut out the carbs as they are high in calories and also make you hungry.

ponygirl, Yes, the idea is to go as long as possible on a fasting day to give your body maximum "repair" time. You're doing really well to get to 7pm before eating. I only manage that now and I've been doing this since mid Feb

ravenous today. came home from work and ate a packet of dry roasted peanuts. today will not be a fast day.

betsy i've maybe been eating a bit less but nothing to account for the amount of weight loss by a long stretch. i totally don't believe the x amount of calories equals x amount of weight on or off because it's so totally alien to what my body actually does.

about to heat a big bowl of stew before i end up snacking on rubbish through hunger.

I'm ravenous, but so bloody minded that I will make it until 6 o' clock when I'm going to savour a mushroom and Stilton omelette and a yoghurt. I had to handle a choc Hobnob for DD before, and turned down birthday cake at my gran's. DF gave me a pack of Cadbury's Freddos for DD which are calling me from in my bag. It's amazing how much crap food crosses your path in the course of a day.

Nursing a black earl grey and looking forward to 6pm.

Ok just realised due to commitments I'm going to have to consecutive fast tomorrow!!!

Urrrrghhhhh!!!! Wish me luck!

it's amazing how much crap food crosses your path in a day
That is so true fork

I've just broken today's fast with 1/4 of an apple. Looking forward to my soup.
Must avoid breakfast on NFDs for a while (I do love toast from my homemade loaf - sob)

saf When I was just doing the food diary pre-5:2 there would be drops in weight that appeared to have absolutely no correlation with my eating. The mechanisms that go on our bodies regulating these things are clearly not simplistic and I always think that calories in vs calories out is a very small part of the story.

On the other hand the weight increases always seemed to make sense!

I have also noticed that I found it very hard to lose weight in April for one reason or another and this month it's all been a lot easier - I'm now just starting my 5th month so I wonder if the 3 to 4 month mark is a common plateau point - it's certainly the point where most diet efforts would be dropped I think.

Good luck monster

I'm at that point in the fast day where I'm starting fantasise about all the highly calorific and delicious things I'm going to eat tomorrow!

I also know that come tomorrow I won't actually want to eat any of those things :)

Only an hour and 20 minutes till I can have my meal not that I'm counting down or anything.

Aiming to do my 5th 36 hour fast today. Only did one last week due to family commitments but still lost. I am sticking to only weighing once a week which is harder than the fasting for me!

Hope to see a new low tomorrow morning and am already thinking about my breakfast

Today is my first fast day, I've read the book and I am totally on-board but there is one thing that I worry about. I was cooking two chicken breasts for dinner tonight (one for me and one for DH, and yes we had dinner at 5pm!), one was a little bit larger than the other so I gave that one to him and I had the other one. However, I didn't weigh it. It wasn't very large at all, so I figured I had three options - 1) it was underweight in which case, yeah, don't go over my calories, 2) it was the right weight so, yeah, don't go over my calories, or 3) it was slightly overweight so I might go over a little bit.

I think if I am forced to weigh and measure everything, that will derail it for me. I figure it's hard enough to do this for the first few weeks and I don't want to become completely obsessed over every gram and ounce in my feed on fast days. I know myself and if everything needs to be weighed/measured, I'm less likely to stick with it. On the flipside, I will underestimate everything and probably wind up on something like 375-400 calories in a day. I didn't eat breakfast today as once I break that seal, I get hungry much quicker. Lunch was about 100 calories, about 3 whopping tablespoons of some vegetable/tomato/bread soup from last night. So for dinner, chicken breast about 200kcal, plus some mushrooms and garlic. Plus a couple of milky teas (I hardly use any milk). So let's tot that up... 100 (lunch) + 200 (chicken) + 50 (mushrooms, garlic and a few Fry Light sprays) + 50 (milk) = about 400kcals.

Do you think that by me eyeballing/casually measuring everything I am doomed to failure, or might it be the only way I stick to it? By not measuring everything to the nth degree I feel like somehow I still have some choice in the matter. Does that remotely make sense?

Erika I never weigh anything on my fast day - go with eyeball guesswork & rough measurements. It's not derailed my efforts at all! I do sometimes go over my day's calories, sometimes by a couple of hundred (sometimes go under too!) but again, I doubt it's made much a of difference overall. 500 is a fairly arbitrary control point anyway.

Good luck & welcome by the way :)

erika that makes perfect sense! No one wants to be a slave to food, which is why most of us love this WOE. Your estimations alone show that you have a fairly good idea on what 500 cals is. And remember, it's not a magic number. It's not like 500 will 'work' but '530' and it's all over!! The idea is that you'll get a deficit at the end of the week. So, if some fast days you're over, and some you're under - no problem.

Good plan to wait as long as possible before eating. I agree, it starts the hunger!

Sounds like you're doing just fine. You're right not to want to obsess about your meals. For that reason, I usually eat pre-prepared food on fast days, just so I don't have to think about it, or measure anything. But, others like to cook. Whatever works.

Thanks Betsy and rucker, that's made me feel much better - I had a moment of 'come on, you're fooling yourself girl!'.

One of the best reasons for a 36 hour fast for me is not having to think of what to eat for 500 cals! Seriously though erika you seem to have a good handle on it so far. You will be so proud of yourself when you wake up tomorrow and know you have done your first day successfully!