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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Diet Thread! Number sweet 16!

999 replies

GreenEggsAndNichts · 22/03/2013 20:05

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
bugsyburge · 05/04/2013 09:22

morning ladies, quick question? I've used the link in the op for the TDEE but im abit confused.... it says my BMR is 1502 and my TDEE is 2066.... on my non fast days should I be eating 1500kcal or 2000kcal?! Shock

swallowedAfly · 05/04/2013 09:26

the BMR is if you sat in a chair all day bugsy - the 2000 is taking account of the level of activity you have said you have. unless you are super active the safest bet, imo, is to select 'sedentary' as your activity level and go for that as the norm but bear in mind that you can eat more if you've actually been really active that day.

NurseEzzzaChapel · 05/04/2013 09:41

bugsyburge TDEE is what you're aiming for on non-fast days. The idea is to keep your weight stable on non-fast days and in theory eating your TDEE will do that and use the calorie deficit from fast days to lose the weight. The great this about this compared to daily calorie restriction methods is this WoE teaches you what you need to eat in order to maintain your weight, which is very useful for when you reach your goal weight.

NurseEzzzaChapel · 05/04/2013 09:42

I second saf's suggestion to work out TDEE based on being sedentary and allowing yourself to eat your exercise calories if you do any. That's what I do.

bugsyburge · 05/04/2013 09:53

thanks ladies!!!!!Smile

NurseEzzzaChapel · 05/04/2013 09:57

saf, I'm not too sure why I'm losing really slowly now I'm back in the UK. It could be a number of reasons. The main one would be that I happened to be in China when I started losing weight. Whatever method I use to lose weight, my body will happily let me drop 10-14 pounds then after that it clings on to the weight like a cat that doesn't want to be picked up clings on to carpet with her claws (or is that just my moggy?)

It could also be that in China I lived on the fourth floor and didn't have a car or a kitchen. So each time I wanted food it was a 10 minute wander to the canteen and eight flights of stairs to get back to my rooms to eat it. Getting the bus was a workout too: usually standing room only, often supporting not only my body weight but occasionally someone else's Hmm and not infrequently being driven by someone who clearly thought all of his passengers were strapped in for a ride at Alton Towers. I'm trying to make up for that with daily shredding and three times weekly 5k running, but maybe my general activity levels are still lower.

Could also be the availability of food issue. I'm a bit on the lazy side and put on weight partly by either eating takeaways or just skipping dinner because I couldn't be bothered to cook any and then eating twice the calories I would have consumed in junk. China suited me really well because I could go out and buy cheap homecooked stuff (dripping in oil but rammed with veg) two or three times a day. Another plus was that on average the takeaway cost me 6-10 yuan for a massive bowl of proper grub and the breakfast baozi were just 0.5 yuan each (only on my uber piggy days could I manage more that 3, I normally had 2) but a packet of m&ms cost 5 yuan so I tended to prefer the proper grub and then wasn't that hungry for snacks.

Or maybe it's a combination of all of the above and I just have to be happy with losing a pound a month from now on. [sigh]

swallowedAfly · 05/04/2013 10:15

i know exactly what you mean LV - with the daily activity and availability of fresh food. the last time i lost loads of weight was when we spent a winter overseas in 2009/10 and i didn't have to try it just fell off. out and about all the time albeit not formally exercising and cheap fresh food so when i felt hungry i could have a yummy fish soup or whatever - instant but good food. i too am lazy and don't much like cooking and also have done a lot of the skip dinner then end up eating more crap later kind of pattern.

i was 8st7lbs when i got home. it is hard to put the finger on exactly what the factor or combo of factors was - it's just a lifestyle/climate/whatever that suits my body more.

when i was younger and used to travel a lot and had lots of kiwi friends we used to say there was a heathrow fat tax - simply landing in the uk made you put on half a stone Grin

NurseEzzzaChapel · 05/04/2013 10:35

Ha ha ha ha! Yup, so I guess I've done really well to avoid paying the fat tax then!

I also forgot about the near impossibility of buying half decent chocolate in China compared to seeing it everywhere here. That and the fact that when you go to a friend's here they give you a cuppa and a biccie, but in china it's green tea and fruit. There are also street vendors selling melon, pineapples and oranges on a stick over there.

akarucker · 05/04/2013 10:44

Oh no! I'm on my 20-something fast and they've all gone well until today. I woke up, ate three creme eggs, two weetabix, and two slices of buttered toast. All before 10am. Yikes, I haven't done that before. What's strange is, I hit a new low this morning, but it seems that I then came downstairs to sabotage it. Really don't know why...it all happened so quickly....you would think a good weigh in would spur me on. Any psychologists out there??? It's not possible for me to fast this weekend, either, so not a good start to the weekend.

Flobbadobs · 05/04/2013 10:48

Funny thing is I never used to eat breakfast, it's only in the past few months that I've started, usually because I'm up early with the toddler and am starving by the time I get back from the school run!
Might try pushing it back to dinner.
Just got back on the wii fit, shocker of a weight gain recently! I nave a bit of a test of a christening on Sunday, the buffet may be a bit of a downfall as the local lady who does it makes the best food but as this is the heaviest I have ever been I am determined.
I have the myfitnesspal app and have hooked up with a friend on there which should help. I need to look and see if walking up and down the stairs umpteen times a day counts as cardiovascular excercise.. Grin

headintheclouds · 05/04/2013 10:59

Hi All,
Ive been away this week on an Easter break.Ive managed 1 fast on Bank Holiday Monday ,but nothing for the rest of the week! im visiting family and friends so theres been ALOT of lunches out and restaurant meals. We travel back up north tomorrow and theres no scales where I am so Im dreading the scales when I return.Im bound to have put a bit back on after my all time low last week. But im also really interested to see whats happened .im going to try to fast on my journey home ,weigh in on Sunday morning and keep everything crossed... Whatever the scales say Ill be back to normal mon/ thurs fast next week.

BsshBossh · 05/04/2013 11:07

Have stayed the same weight this week despite Easter eating so happy with that.

plecofjustice · 05/04/2013 12:06

bugsyburge

It's not that much of an exact science though. For example, I fast twice a week, for the rest of the working week I eat 20% below TDEE, then what I like at weekends.

Don't feel you have to stick rigidly to the figures. The golden rule though is that, over a week, your average daily calorie intake must be above BMR and below TDEE - this is the sweet spot for weight loss.

Below BMR and you're starving your body
Above TDEE and you're eating more calories than you need

mehefin · 05/04/2013 12:13

akarucker, I recognise that feeling and remember doing a similar thing about 3 years ago when I had lost about a stone. Someone commented on how much weight I'd lost and it sent me straight back to eating !

Haven't had anything like it with this WOE but I do have at the front of my mind that the fasts are for health benefits and the weight loss is a side effect so maybe that gives me a more balanced view

What are you going to do for the rest of today? Nothing wrong with waiting til Monday and starting again - sometimes I think it takes a while for our mind to catch up with what's happening

ELR · 05/04/2013 12:22

Hi flobbadods I second what nurse says it does get better snd it is achievable. No way would I have been able to leave the house without breakfast as used to feel sick too. I find now I just have a large glass of water as soon as I wake up and that sorts the sickness I tried herbal teas but they make me feel sick on an empty stomach so water it is and I then have a black coffee an hour or so later.

kiwidreamer · 05/04/2013 13:14

its my second fast day today, a bit harder than my first which was after a huge food indulged Easter weekend, aiming for breaking my fast at 3pm (last food was at 8pm last night) and just now starting to get growly tummy. Planning to have two egg omelette with tablespoon of milk and tablespoon of grated cheese and a bunch of asparagus :) then a carrot in the afternoon sometime and lamb steak and salad for dinner. Saturday mornings are our weigh days but I'm not expecting to be any different this week after soooooo much food Sat/Sun/Mon last week, with any luck I'll be the same as I was last Saturday and then next week I'll see an actual loss... please please please!!!!

Sheila · 05/04/2013 13:31

Hello everyone (waves). New to the thread so thought I'd introduce myself. I'm planning to start my first fast on Sunday. Because I have such issues with hunger I'm going to ease in gently with the 7pm to 7 pm method. On my non fast days I plan to eat as normal, because the big selling point for me of this WOE is that I only need to have willpower for two days a weekGrin

I appreciate I'll lose weight more slowly this way, but I'm playing the long game. If I can cope with the hunger I'll upgrade to the calendar day fast jobby, but easy does it!

Anyone else doing 7-7?

Southeastdweller · 05/04/2013 15:38

Hi all and welcome to newbies Smile

I put on a pound this week but all in all feeling sanguine about it as I enjoyed Easter weekend alot plus as i said up thread, it is only once a year. I may do 4:3 next week as I did the other week and be more mindful on non-fast days. Actually I definitely will do as just now for a snack I had a nutella filled doughnut from a bakery my colleague's been telling me about. I don't fast on Fridays but this was naughty of me...I'll have a light dinner tonight, I think.

Hope everyone enjoys their weekends!

mummytowillow · 05/04/2013 15:58

Hi, just remembered another question.

On a fast day what's the easiest way to do it. ie when to start and finish and when to eat.

I get crabby if I don't have breakfast Wink

NurseEzzzaChapel · 05/04/2013 15:59

akarucker, don?t worry, those days happen sometimes. You?ve had twenty odd successful fasts and one woopsy doesn?t spell the beginning of the end. When I?ve tried traditional dieting I knew one slip up meant I would go off the rails for weeks, but with this WoE if I have a slip up on a planned fast day I just chalk it up to experience and I?m back on track the next fast day. If you can learn anything from the munchie fest all to the better. Smile

Flobbadobs, I never used to eat breakfast either and nor did my mum but we both bought the received wisdom that you have to eat breakfast to lose weight and soon found not eating breakfast made us nauseated. Confused I think one of the great things about this WoE is not having to worry about buffets prepared by great cooks. I?m aware to make good choices on non-fast days, but letting myself enjoy a good nosh up occasionally is part of the joy of this WoE.

Well done on staying the same Bssh!

Welcome to the thread Sheila, do keep us updated to let us know how the 7pm to 7pm method works for you. Smile

NurseEzzzaChapel · 05/04/2013 16:06

mummytowillow, most of us find the later in the day we have our first food the easier it is to stick to a fast. If you get crabby without breakfast then how about something protein rich for breakfast like ham and eggs? That's what the great Dr M has on his fast days, then he skips lunch and has some kind of fish with veggies for dinner. Could that work for you?

I can skip breakfast ok now but can't make it to dinner time without food or I get crabby too, so for the sake of others around me I have a big bowl of soup for lunch and something like fish and veggies for dinner.

BlondeLuxLisbon · 05/04/2013 16:08

Hi, hope people don't mind me joining in ... little late seeing as you're already at 16! Smile

The fast days are ok for me ... usually an omelette with a small amount of cheese and then soup for dinner. I try to just drink herbal tea and water during the day and then maybe a piece of fruit too.

The days I struggle with are the feast days - I take them too literally as in feast until I want to explode Sad

How do you know how much you should eat on those days? ... Would love any advice. Especially as you're now all experts at this!

frenchfancy · 05/04/2013 16:34

Hi Blonde you are welcome to join the fold. I think the word feast is a misnomer to start with, they are supposed to be normal days not feast days. The problem is many of us don't know what normal is, which is why we need to lose weight. The advice is to try and stick to your TDEE on non-fast days (see OP for details of TDEE). Personally I try to keep below it on weekdays so I can feast at weekends. So for example my TDEE is about 2200 cals; in a week I might eat:

Monday Fast - 500 cals
Tuesday - 1700 cals
Wednesday - 1700 cals
Thurday - Fast
Friday - 2200 cals
Saturday - 2500 cals
Sunday - 2500 cals.

If you can't keep control of your eating then try logging everything on MFP. If you are logging though don't forget to weigh things. It is no good knowing that a baked potato is 200 cals if your baked potato weighs 400g rather than 200g.

SaltyandSweet · 05/04/2013 16:38

My mind is stuck on Southeastdweller's nutella filled doughnut Envy!! Coming to the end of a fast day ...

storminabuttercup · 05/04/2013 16:41

Hi guys

Not been on for a while sounds like everyone is doing well.

I've got a quick question, what does everyone do when they are fasting while ill. I've had tonsillitis for three weeks now, on my second lot on penicillin, I feel terrible, I fasted on Tuesday as it hurt to eat anyway, today I've ended up breaking my fast much earlier than usual as I was very lightheaded and shakey. I still feel very hungry. I will continue, but I'm wondering if anyone has any tips....