5:2 Diet Thread: Part Four! Sit down, have a cuppa..

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon recently, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Here is a list of the links we've gathered so far about this diet. I hope I haven't left many out, but it was a 40 page thread! This is a good start for anyone, though:

First things first, here is a link to our previous thread, which we've outgrown. Lots of good support and ideas still to be found there. Here is the thread before that..

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

is a link to the first part of the aforementioned Horizon, subsequent parts of that episode are linked on that page.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. :)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Goof Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We often mention basal metabolic rate (BMR) here. This refers to the amount of energy (calories) a person uses when at rest; so, the basic number of calories a person needs to stay the same weight. This number is often quoted as being 2000 calories for the "average" woman, but of course is different depending on how tall you are, how much you weigh, etc. Here is a calculator which will easily help you to find out what your BMR is.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are new to this diet. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous thread, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting them all in one post this afternoon. wink

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

I wondered what that shining thing I could see was, thina. Goodness knows it's not the sun

So keep it up - it's the only thing brightening up a depressingly grey day!

Tellmelater
The 5:2 is a softer variant of ADF which is itself a softer variant of periodic fasting which is itself a softer variant of permanent calorie restriction.
The medical principles are identical.

And if you worry about the implications of periodic fasting on the female body, have a natter with any of your Moslem friends who have been adhering to Ramadan for a month every year of their lives ..... and the further from the equator they travel, the longer that fasting time can be (especially this year as it was in July).

Fast day for me today, missed breakfst (still feeling ick after hangover from saturday night!) and had small portion of chicken breast with lettuce at 12. (MFP puts this at 231 cals! Can't possibly be right, so I changed it to a different 'chicken, breast, roast' heading and it's now 110 cals for the same amount!)
Made stock with the chicken carcass and have soup on the go, just stock, carrots,leek. Hopefully will be still under 500 cals by end of today.

It might sound daft, but my impression is when looking at much older generations in Germany (where I am right now) who were born between 1900 and 1920 and who suffered a lot of hunger and who are the ones who when times got better, were still not prone to overeating and they adhered to strict non-processed food regimes, only one large meal a day, on some days more over-indulgence on others less food etc.... They are the healthiest with the least typical illnesses other generations after them were commonly known for.
And if you know their stories, many of them have survived 2 wars and they have suffered for many post-war years as well...and they were a generation where it wasn't uncommon to live until your late 80's and 90's.
When I look at their fitness, I marvel at them.

talkinpeace yes we believe fasting is beneficial but we're guessing when it comes to how much we need to fast, we know very little about the health impact of the 5:2 diet.

We don't know how much, adding milk to our tea and coffee or drip feeding calories throughout the day, will affect the health benefits on this diet compared to a full on fast.
We dont have comparitive study of the health impacts 4:3, 5:2 or 6:1 or the 16hr fast - people are just making it up as they go along.
We don't know the impact of eating 200kcal for lunch and then 300 kcal for dinner compared with 500kcal in one meal.
We are not sure how much protein we should be eating on a fast day.
We are no sure whether what % of daily calories we can eat and still get the health benefits we desire.
There are many questions people are asking and no one has the answers - not answers backed up by scientific studies and analysis.
Dh for example does not need to lose any weight, he would like to obtain the health benefits - can he go on 13:1 or the 6:1 diet or will only fasting once a week/fortnight be a waste of time? No one knows!

I think the health benefits may be there but my chosen method of fasting may be less effective, I don't know and it looks like no one else does - we are part of the experiment.

Tellmelater in my experience, it is possible to sort of "listen" to your body and observe yourself every day and every week...your body and mood will tell you and you'll feel what might be right. Sounds shallow what I am saying right now, but just wanted to share how much I feel I know my body and my moods best.

I could not folow the idea of eating 5-6 small meals for example. Also cannot eat Müsli, another example...

TalkingPeace, in Ramadan food might be delayed but the calaries are not reduced. They take particular care in preparing their food during this time and often adapt their daily routine. One study found a 20% increase in disability for babies conceived during Ramadan. It is not clear.

There are definite differences in the way men and women physiologically react to fasting. I've seen articles and research out there that describe how cycles and hormones can be disrupted by fasting and I experienced a strange cycle last month. Maybe it was coincidence but I think I'll wait until there are more studies on fasting and fertility before I continue fasting.

Gah - didn't realise there was a new thread, so posted on the old. Won't repeat myself. Also posted a recipe because I didn't realise there was a separate thread. red face

tellmelater
Could you find me the medical studies that prove Atkins / Dukan / Slimfast / Weightwatchers / Lighter Life are safe with no long term health impacts?

The point is that the health effects of cutting back of food a bit CANNOT be as bad as the health effects of morbid obesity, heart disease, diabetes, diverticulitsis, colitis and all the other diseases associated with the modern western diet.

And frankly most slim people have been fasting / calorie restricting all their lives - that is why they are thin.

lookbehindyou I read somewhere there was evidence to suggest the fertility of the human body is better able to cope with a deficit of calories created from intensive exercise than from calorie limitation. But if I wanted to conceive another child I'd be wary of doing either.

I think the health benefits associated with this type of diet do make it more socially acceptable and make it sound much less faddish. Mind you there is plenty of scientific evidence to support low carbing but it's still seen as as a faddy diet.

LookBehindYou the spiritual and meditative/self-reflective factors which play a role Ramadanfasting is something to consider as well.
And also as you know in Ramadan, if being pregant or ill or too young, too old, or being on your period etc. is all a good reason not to fast and to have some alternative way of fasting or postponing those days etc.
In fact, as far as I understood Ramadanfasting, even though your body and health and life circumstances might prevent you from doing it, is not considered an admirable religious virtue, right!?

Thin doesn't always equal healthy TalkingPeace
Many slim people have not been 'calorie restricting' - they have been eating a sensible portion. Big difference.

worldcitizen of course there are spiritual benefits to doing ramadan but that isn't what we were discussing.

even though your body and health and life circumstances might prevent you from doing it, and you still stick to fasting is not considered an admirable religious virtue, right!?

That's what i meant to say/ask!?

No, no I was bringing that up as a possible reason for why it also seem easier or do-able etc.

might seem easier, getting yourself into the zone for something mentally and spiritually makes it sometimes easier...if not weight loss is the main aim, I think

Yes totally worldcitizen

Didn't people used to fast before Christmas, it was seen as semi religious but it was more likely that it was a way of saving up food for a feast.

Lent happens to coincide with the hungry months of March and April, having a spiritual reason for fasting must make it a lot easier. Do you think fasting over lent would give you health benefits all year around? I expect it not, Michael Mosley's health benefits in his blood, from his 3 day fast disappeared pretty quickly but we have no way of knowing what you need to do to maintain the health benefits that diminish your risk of Alzheimer's or dementia - do we? because that is all I'm interested in - the other health benefits I already get from elsewhere.

tell me I believe lent fasting could be very beneficial, and yes I believe Orthodox Christians fast before Christmas as well...don't nail me on this one please.
And I do believe the combination of religious fasting and going to mass/prayer etc. possibly reading more than usual in your book of prayer of choice etc. can have the effect of being more in tune with yourself, your body, the body.spiritual connection, reflecting upon yourself and your connection to food and drink and all that.
Could be good, I think.

Anyway, sorry ladies I didn't mean to hijack the thread. There does seem to be many health benefits to the IF/5:2 woe, it just isn't for me right now.

Lookbehindyou - the people I know who are thriving on it are all over 45 and have youngest child at secondary school. It does seem excellent for middle age spread, maybe less good for those whose bodies are a bit younger :-)

Yes, worldcitizen, Orthodox Christians do "fast" (of a fashion) during their Advent - I had never known that but my (RC) cousin married a girl from a Russian Orthodox family and they had a birthday party for their daughter on the 31 December just past. My cousin's wife's family brought their own cake made without eggs (or, I believe, flour) because they were fasting before their Christmas, which wouldn't take place till January.

The movie "Chocolat" has a very good description of just how strict Lenten fasting for Catholics used to be, which I believe is what Orthodox Christians follow now both for Lent and Advent (though I'd be fascinated to lean otherwise). By the time I was a kid all we had to do was abstain from meat on Fridays and Ash Wednesday (and remember of course fish was fine), and try to "give up" something for the rest of the time. I believe we were supposed to restrict ourselves to one meal on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday but we never managed that.

So, went out for lunch and had what I thought was the lowest calorie thing on the menu - a pear and Lancashire cheese salad with walnuts. I inhaled the whole thing and tried to figure out the calories I consumed on MFP - I think that despite my best efforts I'm still slightly over 500 for the day, and I was counting on a tiny square of chocolate at the end of the evening . I may just have it anyway - this has to be a way of life for me, and I can't go on if I can't go out to lunch without messing everything up. I still think I did well (my dining companions both had prosecco and tried to get me to join them and I held firm - that has to count for something, right?), and am on the right path.

Not being a God person, I'll get my meditative bits from Yoga :-)

Wonderful for sharing mommybunny

and Talkin I can imagine that to be very meditative and strengthening...I must be the last person earth who hasn't tried Pilates or Yoga. But want to at least...

mommybunny
When I grew up Fridays was always Fish day in school and childcare etc.
I know people who also don't smoke and don't drink alcohol during lent, they are more conscious about what and how much they eat...try to reflect as in appreciating the planet and the "natural" food cycle and where it all comes from, also going through the rough patch of NOT constantly munching, not over-indulging, not wasting and throwing away food etc.