5:2 Diet Thread: Part Four! Sit down, have a cuppa..

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon recently, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Here is a list of the links we've gathered so far about this diet. I hope I haven't left many out, but it was a 40 page thread! This is a good start for anyone, though:

First things first, here is a link to our previous thread, which we've outgrown. Lots of good support and ideas still to be found there. Here is the thread before that..

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

is a link to the first part of the aforementioned Horizon, subsequent parts of that episode are linked on that page.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. :)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Goof Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We often mention basal metabolic rate (BMR) here. This refers to the amount of energy (calories) a person uses when at rest; so, the basic number of calories a person needs to stay the same weight. This number is often quoted as being 2000 calories for the "average" woman, but of course is different depending on how tall you are, how much you weigh, etc. Here is a calculator which will easily help you to find out what your BMR is.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are new to this diet. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous thread, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting them all in one post this afternoon. wink

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Thank you! mumof this might be nonsense, but I think weight becomes more difficult to lose the longer its been on. At the mo I am getting rid of quite recent weight still. I was 8st3 when I got pg with ds, who is 11weeks, and I am now 8st11. I was 7st3 when I got pg with dd (2.10) (I'm only 5'1 and very slight build). So I think I will lose fairly steadily until 8st3 and I anticipate that if I get below that it will be be a bit of a long slog back to pre-dd weight. I don't mind too much though if that bit takes a while, as at least I have some clothes to get comfortably into once I get back to pre-ds weight!

Just marking place on thread and fasting. Have stuck faithfully to fasts on Mondays and Thursdays since 1st September. Think may possibly have lost a tiny bit of weight (I have loads to lose) but can't really tell until I've weighed myself.

Agree with everyone's posts about this intermittent fasting have a generally positive effect on the amount and what you choose to eat on non-fast days.

worldcitizen You can make a curry pretty low cal if you concentrate on the veggies rather than the meat (or leave meat out altogether) .. I tend to use a curry paste a bit like Pataks (only I get Anilas as I think they are much nicer -they have a website) and no additional oil except what's in the paste (and i drain as much of that off as I can) ..

However if you make it totally from scratch using the spices it can be even less, but I don't usually as it takes much longer - and you would need oil to fry the spices off if you wanted it to taste really authentic really

So today i sweated off carrots celery and onions in chicken stock (you could use veggie if you want) rather than oil. then added garlic , grated ginger ,a cinnamon stick , some tomatoes and 2 tablespoons of the drained curry paste, then three skinless chicken thighs with all fat cut off, simmered it it for a while then added some mushrooms courgette (zucchini) an orange pepper chopped up and some frozen cauliflower..

Its smelling good, will probably take another hour , then when I serve it ill take the meat off the bone and chop it back in and add loads of of fresh chopped coriander ( and some more chilli sauce - l like it hot ) .. ..It will be enough for about 4 or 5 good big bowlfuls .. .. I reckon of about 350 cal each at most and ill probably put a dollop of natural yog on the top but wont have rice with it

tellmelater
The science of fasting is so new, so unproven in humans, health benefits are by no means a given....so for me the health benefits are the nice side effect - if they happen....there's no guarantees
That is not actually true.

The scientific studies of calorie restriction started in the 19th Century.
There were substantial cohort studies of people from the 1930's depression in the USA
The Dutch study of people who suffered in WW2 during their blockade has been running since 1946.
Studies on Japanese who routinely do not finish meals (as a sign of politeness) started in the 1920's
The evidence is unequivocal. Restricted calorie intake extends life and reduces cardiovascular illness and cancer.
The new link is with Alzheimers - which may soon be renamed Type 3 diabetes.

For once we are all trying a diet that STARTED with the Science and THEN hit the press, rather than a book/celebrity endorsement then being checked out scientifically.

Thanks for that Laska your description made my mouth watery, sounds very good, Could literally envision it.
Does this mean the coconut has to go???

There are a couple of veg curry recipes on the recipe thread

Thanks Frenchfancy

RightBugger I think there's something in your theory. Before getting pregnant with DS1 6 years ago I was 10 stone, after having him I got down to around 11 3 where I stayed until getting pg with DS2 3 years ago. After having him I was 13 stone 9, have dropped 2.5 stone in the first year since having him, but have stayed around 11 3 for the past year. Finding this last stone and a bit really, really tough to shift. Despite doing what I did to lose 2.5 stone!

Very annoying.

I have a question - at various points in the thread people have referenced 1900 cals for feast days. Is that a general guideline? Really struggling NOT to stuff my face like I did when I was pg on feast days - starting to realise I have a very unhealthy relationship to food :( I'm fine if I'm totally restricted, but unrestricted? Makes me go crazy.

No not really world... if you were eating it on a feast day you could just shave some coconut of a block of paste (or add fresh grated if you have some) and add it to your portion before you heat it up! (and also have it with all the extras - rice, chutney papadum etc ) That's what's so good about this WOE..

Just eating a small bowlful for lunch now! (not fasting today) Just what i need on this cold day here ..

Thanks Laska I'll try. I am going to start this 5:2 next month and have set 10 weeks for the beginning and will see....

So, am reading and getting myself into the zone and am also looking into recipes and what I need to have in the cupboard and fridge. Trying to have some pre-planned meals and have stuff to choose from at home...

have just added the link to Anilas curry sauces to the
Recipe link

They are great .. I get them mail order (live on the IOW .. we don't get too much choice over here )

Bettybutterknife - Using MFP I'm trying to average 1200 calories every day, across the week to lose 2lbs a week. So, having 500 cals on two days of the week 'allows' for having slightly more on other days and still lose weight...

Was hungry, and had past 16 hours point, so just tucked in to Boiled egg, tomato and two slices of wafer thin ham and am stuffed! All for 90 calories. Have gone with salmon and roasted peppers, onion, courgettes and small amount of potato for dinner tonight.

TalkinPeace2 are the effects the same for women in those studies? Bit worried about the stuff I read on here www.marksdailyapple.com/women-and-intermittent-fasting/#axzz27NcJ8OTG which suggests this woe puts stress on women's bodies.

How are you fasting are you having one meal or eating veg etc through the day and are you controling cals on non fast days? This woe eating makes sense to me like I said before do want to continue but hopefully in a fairly healthy way.

Dinner was scrummy last night - however, I usually do not have the bread that is served with oil/balsamic before the starters but last night I ate four or five pieces!

Despite that, and it being my second eating day in a row, this morning I'm still 60.5 which is heartening.

After shifting my cold from last week, I've awoken with... another cold! DS3 is very snuffly too so not much sleep for us last night. It's an eating day but I don't feel like eating yet. I want to take something to dry up my nose but alas that'll dry up my milk too so I'll just have to suffer

Lots of great weight loss/finding it easy to stick to fasts being reported - yay!

ThatBint 8 days in isn't really very long and it seems there are three fairly distinct groups of us when it comes to weight loss: most seem to loss a fair amount straight off, then settle into a more steady loss, the 'middle group' lose pretty steadily, but sloooowly, and the smallest group don't lose much at all for some time until something 'clicks' and suddenly they do (could be their bodies take time to adjust, or there is a period in the beginning where eating days are particularly indulgent as the psychological and physical switch takes a little time to happen (ie the appetite 'reset' I think most if not all of us see)).

It would seem perhaps you're going to be in the middle group or the slower responding group but I feel confident you WILL see results. Also many women see a stall/gain/struggle around their period - relevant to you too? Hang in there.

Betty people refer to guideline calories for eating days mostly because yes, sometimes people need a general idea of what a normal eating day is. For some, 1900 calories is their BMR. If you follow the steps on this link, you should be able to figure out the number of calories your body needs to maintain its current weight. That is, approximately, the number of calories you should be eating on non-fast days.

You will likely begin to self-regulated over time. My first week or so of fasting, I spent my eating days eating more than usual (but still losing weight). I don't do that any more; I still have nice things to eat, but just not very much of them. The fasting days have helped decrease my hunger on those days.

Pookey
I never eat breakfast. Tea and orange juice is my morning ration - has been for 35 years, except on Sundays.
Today's lunch will be black coffee and a couple of apples. So I have 500 calories for supper tonight.
On a normal day I have a small sandwich or salad or soup for lunch and then a decent sized supper. I'm not drinking during the week - it seems to be around 2000 calories averaged out.

And yes, calories restriction DOES put stress on your body. That is the whole point. It forces the body to dip into reserves and go into repair mode. Feeling hungry a bit and pushing yourself a bit are not bad things. We lived with them for tens of thousands of years. Only the modern food industry convinces us to "banish hunger pangs".

Have a look at this : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_famine_of_1944
For many months, through a bitter winter, the whole population was forced to live on 580 calories a day, every day. Some died but most did not. Bodies are resilient.

bettybutterknife my stats were almost identical to your before I started this WOE , and I also stuck at about 11.5 for the last year or so, but since doing this I've dropped about 9-10lb.

I definitely don't eat as many as 1900 on eating days any more , in fact some days I struggle to eat much at all ( not today!!) . One thing i have noticed and DH commented (not unkindly) on it, is that my overall portion size is on eating days is MUCH less than it was before I started this. I'm not feeling deprived at all , having just what I want on food days but just don't seem to want so much .. I think (as they said on the tv prog) , if your body is constantly in 'go go' mode you do eat more.. Fasting seems to have broken that chain ..

Have you done your BMR? (link above on the info bit at the top of the page ) it will give you some idea of how much you can eat on feed days

Good luck.. I didn't think id ever do it either.. it does work and we are all here routing f r each other , but I think its important not to get too hung up on it if its not working YET..If you are at all like me you'll gradually get into it and lose the 'fear' of being hungry as you do more..

Thanks Talkinpeace - funnily enough I feel less shakey weird if I don't have breakfast than if i have white toast so I may try to adopt that strategy too maybe with late yog or porridge occasionally on non fast day. Will check out that link.

Pookey - white toast would give you a big rush of sugars (because its very easily broken down) so you would be more likely to then get a dip afterwards (for me that results in the shakes). I had porridge made with 3 dessert spoons of porridge oats and hot water for my breakfast this morning at 7am - and haven't made my soup yet (more like broth to be fair) although I have been drinking some green tea to put it off a bit....

Just drooling over your curry recipe laska. BTW, congrats on your impending grannyhood. I became a granny 9 months ago and it's A-MAZ-ING.

Fast day today - 0 cals for breakfast and about 100 for lunch in form of courgette and cauliflower soup. Lots of cals left for this evening (curry perhaps?!)

Just had lunch, I blended together a potato, leek and a couple of carrots boiled in vegetable stock. Was lovely and I only had half of it, will have the other half later, only 233 calories for the whole lot

talkinpeace I can't see the study that supports the 5:2 diet.

Well todays fast has gone out the window. Dh is working from home so we had fastfood for lunch. Nevermind, will just do Tues, Thurs, Sat this week instead of mon, wed, fri. I am totally over not fasting at weekends 'in case it ruins my weekend'. Since I tried to do a consecutive Thurs and Fri fast last week to avoid a saturday fast. Thur and fri were fine, but i was sooo bad on the saturday after, scoffed breakfast after nearly collapsing and then bought it straight back up again! That was much more of a ruined weekend than just having a fast day!

On a fast day today, so far had some galia melon (it's v filling) and a cuppa soup at 2pm, then WW curry later, just about 500 altogether including my tea/coffee milk.

Went to a meeting this morning with Gi-Normous Scones and little tarts, I had a raspberry tea. Can you see my halo from where you are???

This is my third week and this might be the first day I actually keep to the 500 and not fall off the wagon due to some poor excuse and I lasted til 2pm until I ate so a good 17 hours fast :-)!!!

Keep your fingers and toes crossed...

Thina Halo shining so much, where even I can see it