Music Junior Programs

[MissScotland]

Hi lovely mamas,

I'm trying to look into and learn about the different junior music programs with a view for my DD to start next year. She's in year 5, grade 6 on the piano (will be taken in March), grade 3 violin, grade 5 theory (distinction). She's super musical and talented with a passion for composition too.

We are looking at the primary academy and RAM, Junior Guildhall and RCMJD. At the moment she has two piano lessons a week, one at home and one at school and a weekly theory/composition lesson. We think she'll get quite a lot out of a junior program, socialising with kids with the same interest and playing in different groups.

I was wondering if you can shed some light on a preferred program. At the moment I'm leaning towards RAM simply because it's the closest, but we are will to drive further for a good reason.

Also, is it common to apply to more than one program in the process? How hard is it to get in?

Another question that might sound silly but I'll give it a go anyway - is year 6 a good year to start? With 11+ exams and music scholarship exams and auditions for secondary schools I wouldn't want to push her too much. She's only 9...

I'd love to hear your thoughts, tips and insight, ideally from first hand experience :-)

Thanks in advance!

@WordsandMusic2020 DS left RCMJD prematurely simply because of his school choice for Y7 (last-minute decision). DS's musical experience was limited to a non-musical state primary school, so we were not immune to any 'serious' institutions. Yet we didn't find them overwhelming nor intimidating. They were relaxed and friendly. DS was very happy and loved his Saturdays. However, I know some negative experience of others. It didn't sound like the same place because it was so different from ours. Though I guess you will always find happy and unhappy people at any place.

Thank you @manuelandviolin. Is your DS at a secondary music specialist school now?

Thanks @manuelandviolin - I think you're right, that all schools / conservatoires will always have some students who love it and some who don't! And that's great your DS had such a positive experience at RCM.

Hello there:

New to this thread and all the comments on various JD's have been most helpful. I note many people have heard from junior RAM, and that is the one JD outstanding on our side. Have heard from RCMJD and Junior GH - just curious if most have now heard from all JD's they applied for?

Hello @JazzTuba. Yes I think most of us heard from RAM (Primary or Junior) a week or ten days ago, so I think worth emailing them to find out results.

When did you hear from RCM? I think that's the one most of us are still waiting on!

Guildhall definitely win the efficiency award!

@JazzTuba - we are also waiting to hear from Junior RAM. Have heard back from RCMJD, we didn’t apply to Guildhall.

We looked at jd's, but dd wanted music during the week too.
Just Saturdays wasn't enough, although it leaves time during the week if they have other hobbies.
She was told from the first audition that no other ensembles were allowed unless one of the national type.
Certainly no other music lessons.
So, she went to specialist music school and boards. There the emphasis is on music with a bit of academic thrown in, which is perfect for those wanting to be musicians.

Thanks for your responses. Interestingly we heard back from RCMJD first (couple weeks ago) and closely followed by GH. The Junior RAM material stated not to expect results before April, so good to hear all the wonderful results from you all. Congratulations! - to all those who were successful and all young musicians with the courage and aspirations to have a go!

@JazzTuba That's interesting. RCM made it pretty clear that they will send results (or offers?) on or close to the 9th of April.
RAM said April but during the open day they sort of hinted that it wouldn't take as long.

Mine went to the CYM. It was the only place she auditioned for. We didn’t know that there were any other junior departments elsewhere and we only heard about CYM by chance. It has a lovely vibe. It was only a couple of stops on the tube for us, and that was important.

What a huge amount of choice in London, in Scotland we just have one conservatoire and two state specialist and one private school. There may be some Saturday schools as well but nothing like what there used to be. The instrumental music service is struggling in many areas as councils cut funding, so the numbers go down, ensembles suffer and people don't put a value on learning an instrument. I hope that things pick up after covid otherwise it truly will only be for the well off, which is sad.

@horseymum I don't think things are that different here, to be honest. There are a few bursaries for conservatoires but not nearly enough to cover everyone who might need them, and music provision in most state primary schools is really struggling. And although we have three conservatoires in London, people travel all over the UK for the Junior Dept Saturday schools, so that's a pretty big catchment area! But I agree that learning an instrument risks being the preserve of the few rather than the many.

@JazzTuba So have you decided which you'll take or was RAM your first choice? We think we've pretty much decided on Guildhall, but hard to make that decision 100% until you know all the outcomes...

@WordsandMusic2020 it is a difficult decision. I feel both will offer amazing music making and learning opportunity in a safe and caring environment. I am lacking insight into the tutors in both organisations and that is what is causing the indecision on my part. Neither offered consultation sessions (but then I have not pushed for them either). It may simply come down to which is closer to us.

@JazzTuba Guildhall are very happy to offer consultation lessons if you ask. I just asked what teacher they recommended, they told me two names, and DC is having consultations with both. RAM PA told us at the Open Day that consultation lessons simply weren't allowed (which is partly what put me off given how important that relationship is). But I'm sure I've read that RCM do consultation lessons so it's definitely worth asking. Everyone says you should base the decision on the quality of the instrument teaching but we don't know any of these teachers by reputation so that makes it a bit difficult! I'm honestly starting to think that all the conservatoires will be equally amazing, if in sightly different ways, and that none of us can make a bad decision!

This thread is really taking me back.... As far as GH was concerned DD was asked to come in before she started to have consultation lessons with 2 teachers on each of her 1st and 2nd studies and told that if she was uncertain she could come back and have more with other teachers. They really seem to take getting the right chemistry really importantly - elsewhere it was much more this is who you get.

Re composition - GH require everyone to take the GH certificate usually in yr 11 and but some take it in yr 10 - and that has a big composition element. They also run composition summer schools. (Mine hate it so weren't interested.)

@WordsandMusic2020 I'm totally with you on this. We got a name from RAM which means nothing to us. My DD's private teacher at the moment is with RAM (not JD) and I don't think she knows this teacher so we are really ion the dark. I'm hoping that they know what they're doing and that if the relationship is not ideal they would accommodate a change.

@MissScotland I thought RAM had said at the open day that you could stay with your current teacher if you wanted to? I'm sure Krystyna said that they didn't want to break up good relationships where they existed between teacher and pupil. In which case that would work well for you?

@WordsandMusic2020 I'm not sure what she said. Our teacher already talked to her and was under the impression that Krystyna is a a assigning a teacher to DD.

@MissScotland That's strange. I'm sure that's what Krystyna said at the open day, and I know other musicians whose parents had conversations prior to audition with RAM PA about keeping current teachers and had been told they could.

@WordsandMusic2020 That's interesting. I'll definitely look into it. Thanks!

My recollection (which could be wrong) was that Krystyna said that in some cases, especially younger children perhaps, they did not require children to give up their old teachers immediately and could accommodate a transition period. However I understood that sooner rather than later they expected students to be switching to a RAM teacher.

At Primary Academy you can stay with current teacher but for junior academy you have to have a RAM teacher

@Ohtobeasausagedog Thank you. So what do these kids do while the others have their private lessons?

All this discussion about changing teachers supports, imo, the importance of getting the timing right. We would never have moved our son to JD before the moment felt right to leave his existing teacher - with whom he has maintained a wonderful friendship since. The 360 degree experience of JD is absolutely what it's all about, especially for teenagers who may feel quite alone in a school where there is no strong music. In our highly academic high school, they couldn't put a GCSE music class together from a seven class cohort and that was a strong contributing factor in making the decision when we did. Guildhall ticked that box with its higher certificate in Y11 which meant that I felt satisfied that ds would be getting a strong grounding in harmony, counterpoint and composition. (Not sure that he sees that as positively as I do!) As it happens, the original teacher had compiled a wish list of subsequent possible teachers that he felt would suit ds and the current teacher at GH was on that list. It was a great choice and has worked really well, even over Zoom, for the last year.
The hardest decision is what to do about the teacher. I would probably say, based on our experience, that you will know for sure when the time is right. If there are too many doubts about leaving, then it's probably not the right time.