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Extra-curricular activities

Find advice on the best extra curricular activities in secondary schools and primary schools here.

Original poster

Music Junior Programs

261 replies

MissScotland · 02/01/2021 16:26

Hi lovely mamas,

I'm trying to look into and learn about the different junior music programs with a view for my DD to start next year. She's in year 5, grade 6 on the piano (will be taken in March), grade 3 violin, grade 5 theory (distinction). She's super musical and talented with a passion for composition too.

We are looking at the primary academy and RAM, Junior Guildhall and RCMJD. At the moment she has two piano lessons a week, one at home and one at school and a weekly theory/composition lesson. We think she'll get quite a lot out of a junior program, socialising with kids with the same interest and playing in different groups.

I was wondering if you can shed some light on a preferred program. At the moment I'm leaning towards RAM simply because it's the closest, but we are will to drive further for a good reason.

Also, is it common to apply to more than one program in the process? How hard is it to get in?

Another question that might sound silly but I'll give it a go anyway - is year 6 a good year to start? With 11+ exams and music scholarship exams and auditions for secondary schools I wouldn't want to push her too much. She's only 9...

I'd love to hear your thoughts, tips and insight, ideally from first hand experience :-)

Thanks in advance!

OP posts:
Original poster
MissScotland · 31/03/2021 16:58

Has anyone heard anything from RCM?
Pffff I can't wait to see the back of this process...

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WordsandMusic2020 · 31/03/2021 18:59

@Ashard20 @Londonmummy66 Thanks both so much for your input about Guildhall - that's really helpful and kind of you to share. It's definitely our number 1 at the moment.

@MissScotland RCM said April 9th for results so I'm not expecting to hear anything before next week (unless they're kind and put us out of our misery before Easter!) How did Guildhall go?

Original poster
MissScotland · 31/03/2021 20:22

@WordsandMusic2020 Yes, I'm aware of the 9th but was hoping that it would be by the 9th rather than on the 9th :-)
Yeah, there's an offer from Guildhall too.

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Original poster
MissScotland · 31/03/2021 20:26

The interview was yesterday and an email with an offer came 5 minutes after. That was super quick :-)

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WordsandMusic2020 · 31/03/2021 20:32

@MissScotland Congrats to your DD! That's great news. Yes, I do like how Guildhall are more tapped into the emotional rollercoaster of it all and let you know really quickly.

Original poster
MissScotland · 31/03/2021 20:35

@WordsandMusic2020 I'm not sure how their process works though. Unless if you are through to the second round you're 99% in...?
Guildhall is a bit far for us so not sure what we'll do. I've been reading and hearing lots of positive things about it.
RAM worries me as she will only have 2 years there.

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WordsandMusic2020 · 31/03/2021 20:39

@MissScotland Yes, my sense is that if you get a second interview, they want you, and only if you're a total disaster in the second round do they not let you in!

Interestingly, at the RAM (virtual) open day, nobody seemed to have started before Year 5, most of them Year 6, so I think that's quite standard at RAM to only have 2 years. But I think it is a disadvantage having to reapply all over again at 12.

Original poster
MissScotland · 31/03/2021 20:40

@WordsandMusic2020 Exactly. I wouldn't want to go through this again in year 7 which is the first year of secondary school no less.
Your DS is younger right?

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WordsandMusic2020 · 31/03/2021 20:42

@MissScotland Yes but I still don't want to do it all again!

Original poster
MissScotland · 31/03/2021 20:44

@WordsandMusic2020 Absolutely. You want to have a peace of mind that once they are there it's done.

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doesanybodyhaveamap · 31/03/2021 21:09

How far is far @MissScotland ? You
May be able to get a slightly later start. We used to have a 2.5hr journey to guildhall so managed to get a 10am start which made it doable!

Original poster
MissScotland · 31/03/2021 21:21

It would be 25 minutes in the car when there's no traffic.
RAM is the nearest, about 10 minutes away. And RCM is in the middle. But for me distance is quite important. These kids are so busy and overloaded. I really wouldn't want her to spend too much time travelling to and from places...

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Ashard20 · 31/03/2021 21:44

There are very occasionally rehearsals on a Sunday at Guildhall, depending on the instrument and ensemble. For my ds that means an overnight stay with relatives (or it used to in pre-Covid times) as we live a very long way away and even with a high -speed train journey, it's 2.5 hours. He uses the time (or, please God, will use the time) to do school work.
It's worth considering when you would be prepared for your child to go alone, if they should continue there. A 25 minute car journey will look very different as an independent tube journey in a couple of years' time.
Personally I loved the vibe at Guildhall when ds went for his audition. It's vibrant and the staff take the safe-guarding aspect very seriously. We once had a very small issue during remote learning and they were super-quick at sorting it and really went the extra mile to put things right with warmth and friendliness.

Original poster
MissScotland · 31/03/2021 21:58

Thank you @Ashard20, that's very helpful.
There will be decisions to make soon. May I ask what instrument your DS plays?

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Ashard20 · 31/03/2021 22:21

@MissScotland
It's French Horn.

squintsoftheworldunite · 01/04/2021 12:42

If it weren't for covid, my DD would have been at RAM pa this year. The tutor for her instrument was largely the draw, along with the enthusiasm of the director and the general vibe of the place and programme. For a long time, we thought it was RCMJD would be all of our number 1 but "go where the right teacher is" was key advice for us. But I think we'd have loved any of them. As its turned out, we've chosen vocational school instead for a variety of reasons.

Well done your little one getting the offers

Original poster
MissScotland · 01/04/2021 15:18

How do you know the teachers at the different institutions?
My DD has an amazing teacher. She's associated with RAM but doesn't teach PA. Her other teacher (who teaches her at school) is not connected to any of them. And her composition teacher is at RCM but again, not related at all to the junior department. We aren't familiar with any potential teachers so can't use that as a parameter.

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Yr10mom · 01/04/2021 22:22

hi DD is at JD - we didn’t know any teachers before applying and went with their recommendations. worked out perfectly. unless you have recommendations/knowledge, i think it can be work out well to trust the jd to match. but if concerned you can ask for taster lessons.

Original poster
MissScotland · 01/04/2021 23:06

@Yr10mom Thank you!

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squintsoftheworldunite · 02/04/2021 20:38

missscotland we knew from working with some of them in workshops etc, mentoring with another. Trial lesson before we committed to school. Website has info sometimes too. But for my child's instrument it's not like there's a range of options in each place, so it needed to be a good fit.

dinosaurinmybelly · 03/04/2021 06:59

Hello - we have also just received offers from RAM and Guildhall for DD. They both sound amazing, but I'm concerned about the fees. We're not in a position to get support with the fees, so please excuse a genuine question - do you feel that it is good value for money for a 10-yr-old child who does have ensemble opportunities already?

doesanybodyhaveamap · 03/04/2021 08:08

Hi @dinosaurinmybelly congratulations on the offers! Like you, we didn't qualify for any bursary support when DD was at GH. However there are some charitable trusts out there that will give grants without taking into account your personal finances. It does take a bit of time trawling through the charity commission pages but for us it was worth it.

In terms of value for money, my personal view is JD's offer so much more than just ensembles. The quality of teaching is obviously excellent, but you may have brilliant teacher(s) anyway so again this might not be the draw. Being immersed in advanced music making on a weekly basis and surrounded by like minded people is a wonderful experience. Also, realising that although you may be talented and very advanced there are others who are just as good, and many who are even better is very grounding. The message that no matter how good you are, hard work and commitment are needed to maximise potential is an important one. However it's also hugely inspirational being surrounded by amazingly accomplished young musicians!

The whole JD environment is very special and I don't think you can recreate that anywhere else really.

But it depends what you/your child want and the motivations for looking at junior departments as the next step I guess.

Ashard20 · 03/04/2021 08:17

Hello @dinosaurinmybelly and congratulations on receiving offers!
It is a massive financial commitment and potentially long term too. Our son was 14, had just left a national ensemble due to being too old, done Grade 8, had very little opportunity at school and was encouraged to do so by his amazing instrumental teacher, who felt it was the right time to move on. For us, it was all about him mixing with peers of a comparable standard, getting the breadth of ensembles and, above all, confirming in his own mind that he wanted to be a professional musician.
Only you know whether it's worth it at this stage. If your child has ensemble opportunities and is thriving with their teacher then I would probably say that it wouldn't be such good value at the moment. It also depends on the instrument. With woodwind and brass children tend to mature slightly later. Also consider whether going at a younger age might mean that later on your child might tire of it. For us it has 100% been good value, as it was clearly the next step for ds and he loved it from the day he went to audition. The experience and opportunities weren't available anywhere else and they were our chief reasons for sending him there, plus, of course, his own drive and motivation.
I suppose what I'm saying is that it was obvious in every way that it was the right thing to do at that age and the eye-watering cost has provided him with great lessons, an orchestra and other chamber ensembles, theory and composition and the opportunity to mix with other teenagers like him.

dinosaurinmybelly · 03/04/2021 08:24

Thank you so much for your response doesanybodyhaveamap. It’s really helpful.

LittleVenetian · 03/04/2021 12:50

It seems there is quite a degree of consensus around the relative merits of Primary Academy vs Jr Guildhall as follows:

PA: especially sensitive to needs of younger children, smaller and more intimate, nicer building, better location for most, cheaper fees, shorter hours (might be more friendly to younger children and their shorter attention span)
Jr Guildhall: entry onto Music Course, more advanced programme, more involvement in choice of teacher and more transparency up front (i.e. pre-decision) in that regard, no need to re-audition for high school.
Both: good teachers, good culture, lovely atmosphere, opportunity to spend time with other children who like music (and have an aptitude for it) and to make new friends.

Am I missing anything?

From my perspective, while the merits of PA were more in my mind before we received the offers, I have been so impressed by everything at Guildhall and we are now leaining in that direction.

On the question of value for money, I think that when you take into account the existing cost of lessons (at least in London), it isn't adding that much to switch to the JD programmes. It is a lot of money but it is also a special opportunity. That being said, if your child is already getting most of what is offered without paying such fees, the position may be different and no doubt plenty of talented children have all sorts of opportunities in music without going to a JD.