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Extra-curricular activities

Find advice on the best extra curricular activities in secondary schools and primary schools here.

Original poster

Music Junior Programs

261 replies

MissScotland · 02/01/2021 16:26

Hi lovely mamas,

I'm trying to look into and learn about the different junior music programs with a view for my DD to start next year. She's in year 5, grade 6 on the piano (will be taken in March), grade 3 violin, grade 5 theory (distinction). She's super musical and talented with a passion for composition too.

We are looking at the primary academy and RAM, Junior Guildhall and RCMJD. At the moment she has two piano lessons a week, one at home and one at school and a weekly theory/composition lesson. We think she'll get quite a lot out of a junior program, socialising with kids with the same interest and playing in different groups.

I was wondering if you can shed some light on a preferred program. At the moment I'm leaning towards RAM simply because it's the closest, but we are will to drive further for a good reason.

Also, is it common to apply to more than one program in the process? How hard is it to get in?

Another question that might sound silly but I'll give it a go anyway - is year 6 a good year to start? With 11+ exams and music scholarship exams and auditions for secondary schools I wouldn't want to push her too much. She's only 9...

I'd love to hear your thoughts, tips and insight, ideally from first hand experience :-)

Thanks in advance!

OP posts:
Original poster
MissScotland · 03/04/2021 13:05

Is everyone planning to cease lessons with the current teachers if and when DC starts JD?

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doesanybodyhaveamap · 03/04/2021 13:09

In my experience most teachers are generally not keen on co-teaching unless it's with a colleague they are used to working with or there is pedagogical input from a master teacher. I do know a couple of examples of 'team teaching' but it's quite rare. In fact, the JD's might even insist you give up current teacher.

doesanybodyhaveamap · 03/04/2021 13:19

When we moved from GH to specialist school my single biggest concern was moving on from DD's wonderful teacher. I asked if we could keep seeing him for holiday lessons. He was the one that actually said no, as much as he'd like to, it wasn't fair to anyone and DD needed to fully commit to the relationship with her new teacher. He was absolutely right of course. She now has the most wonderful relationship with her fantastic new teacher. We do also stay in touch with previous teacher and he keeps us informed of courses and masterclasses that he is teaching on. She is going to Austria to attend a masterclass course with him later this year (Covid permitting!!).

Yr10mom · 03/04/2021 13:29

yes keeping a regular second teacher is very frowned up one - in fact explicitly not slowed at RAM JD. but i know people do sometimes secretly do so. it rarely ends well - it’s a small
world- and puts the child in a very difficult position of effectively concealing the truth and different approaches etc .

dinosaurinmybelly · 03/04/2021 17:04

Oh yes, my understanding is that you absolutely must cease all other lessons once you start at the JD. This was a big consideration for us as we like our current teachers. I believe you can have a taster with some of the JD teachers before deciding who the best fit is though...

Original poster
MissScotland · 03/04/2021 18:14

Thank you ladies. This must be so hard, stopping lessons with a loved teacher...

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squintsoftheworldunite · 03/04/2021 21:04

We are an exception to this. We have had a team teaching approach on my child's first study for the last year and it's one that everyone has enthusiastically agreed to continuing for the future because they all know each other and work well as a team. But it's been made abundantly clear that there's a new boss of the team!

Original poster
MissScotland · 03/04/2021 21:15

@squintsoftheworldunite
Thank you. May I ask which JD you’re in?
And who’s boss? :-)

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WordsandMusic2020 · 04/04/2021 09:20

@dinosaurinmybelly Congrats on the offers! I think really only you can decide whether it's good value for money. It's such a personal decision. It's what you think your DC will get out of it that they're not getting now.

On the overall vfm, as someone else has already pointed out, it's not actually that much more than year-round lessons on two instruments. And yet they're getting all the amazing ensemble, choir, orchestra and musicianship training as well. And for those deciding between RAM PA and Guildhall, it's worth noting that although RAM PA is half the cost of Guildhall, it's also half the hours of tuition: Guildhall is 5.5 hours of core teaching, RAM PA is 3. The pro rata cost is the same at both of them. So if someone's main issue is cost overall, then maybe RAM PA is a better fit for now. If cost isn't the issue, I think the deciding factors are instrument teacher, whether you want a full day at Guildhall or just an afternoon at RAM, and the culture of each institution. We really like that Guildhall feels v collaborative with parents, whereas that doesn't seem to be the case so much at RAM (we were told explicitly by RAM that parents can never sit in on lessons, whereas at Guildhall we were told it's actively encouraged). In the absence of any of us being able to visit any of the conservatoires, I think you just have to go with your gut feeling.

horseymum · 04/04/2021 12:42

Were delighted that DD had just got an offer for JD. Looking at this thread, there's loads of things I hadn't even thought about. I'm so used to the teacher coming to the house it will be really strange not to have that contact. I didn't even know some places let you sit in on lessons. ( DD would hate that but I can hear plenty from the other room in normal times). We won't have a choice of teacher either as timetables not finalised til August. I think I'm just so glad she will get to play with others who love music as much as her. I knew she would finish with current teachers, that is part of the reason for applying but she will still see current teacher as he is involved in the JD but he is not a specialist in her instrument, hence the need for a new teacher. Exciting times for everyone.

manuelandviolin · 04/04/2021 13:13

I have been through this before. Reading this thread makes me feel I am going through the experience again - so exciting.

When we did, RCMJD was the only place with staged auditions and it was required only for piano and violin. It sounds like Guildhall does it now as the second interviews were mentioned a couple of times on here. Is it for all the instruments?

In regard to the value of the money, as others said it really depends on what is available in your area and whether you have the right network/connection already. Some people may feel they would do better without JD. It's not just money but also for more flexibilities to more precise individual needs. Though, I think JD can be a great one-stop-shop and logistically a great life-saver for many busy families.

violinmama · 04/04/2021 21:47

Has anyone heard back from RNCM juniors yet?

Original poster
MissScotland · 04/04/2021 22:03

@manuelandviolin This year to to Covid there weren't proper second rounds. Guildhall had a very quick interview. RAM and RCM used the materials submitted in the first round for the second rounds.
May I ask what your experience was with RCM? Were you pleased with it?

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violinmama · 04/04/2021 22:29

Just had a read through all the comments. Huge congratulations to all those with offers already! Exciting times ahead! Tricky deciding which JD to choose when there are no open days for those with multiple offers.
I was a bit taken aback at the post that thought 25 mins may be too far 😳 It’s all a matter of perspective I guess. We had applied for RAM PA but pulled out due to covid - this would’ve been a 6 hour round trip at best!!

Yr10mom · 04/04/2021 22:57

Yes me too- our JD commute is 4-5hr round trip and there are people with much longer/more complicated journeys. Dd starts classes at 9 and finishes at 5 so it’s is a very long day; Sunday is simply sleeping, ho,eWorld and catching up on the house stuff (me)

manuelandviolin · 04/04/2021 23:59

@MissScotland We were there only one year and a bit so our experience is rather limited but DS absolutely loved it. He had known only school music before joining RCMJD so it was a huge jump as you can imagine. Naturally, everything was so new and exciting to us. We miss the buzz, and people. We really liked Guidhall too, but it was too far for a weekly commitment. I know many people are willing to commute a long way but I didn't want that for DS. RCM was a 10-15 mins drive for us.

Original poster
MissScotland · 05/04/2021 09:20

@manuelandviolin thank you! I totally understand about the distance. We are up to 30 min from all of them and I’m still leaning towards the nearest one. These kids are so busy and overworked, if I can allow for more free time I will always try to.

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manuelandviolin · 05/04/2021 11:12

@MissScotland Your options are all great, so unless you are after a particular course or teacher or atmosphere, my recommendation would always be to pick the nearest one. Obviously, everyone has different priorities and I respect that. It's just for us, like you, distance and time were on the top of the list, partly because mine was still at primary school age. It saved us so much time and energy which was very important (for us) to be able to enjoy and sustain the full experience.

Yr10mom · 05/04/2021 15:28

@MissScotland def agree there are no rights or wrongs and at different times different things matter to each young person - many at JD reduce down their timetables of yr 11 to balance gcses for example. you have some great options!

Original poster
MissScotland · 05/04/2021 15:32

Thanks ladies. We are still thinking (and obviously waiting for results from RCM). \we're trying to read a lot about each program to figure out how DD's 1st and 2nd studies will be supported and nourished. I'm slowly realising that there are quite significant differences between the programs so we need to be careful. Also a bit worried about re-auditioning after 2 years at RAM. This is a right turn off...

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WordsandMusic2020 · 05/04/2021 20:52

@MissScotland What are the differences you've noticed so far? Other than the fact that RCM / Guildhall are pretty much all day, whereas RAM is only the afternoon, we've found them to be pretty identical (instrumental lesson, choir, orchestra, chamber music, musicianship): the only difference seems to be that RCM / Guildhall you get an hour of each and RAM is about 30/40 mins of each. Have you clocked other differences too?

WordsandMusic2020 · 05/04/2021 20:56

@manuelandviolin May I ask why your DS only stayed a year? (Obviously don't answer if you'd rather not say!) And did he find RCM relaxed and friendly or quite serious? (My impression is that RCM is a bit more pressurised than the others, but that might be just the experience of the few people I know who've been there).

Original poster
MissScotland · 05/04/2021 20:56

@WordsandMusic2020 DD’s second study is composition and I would say it’s as strong or almost as strong as her first study. We are trying to find out which JD can nourish that nicely too. Looks like RCM is quite serious about composition in JD.

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Original poster
MissScotland · 05/04/2021 20:58

Also with RAM she’ll be amongst the oldest kids (she’ll be in Y6 next year) and have to re audition after 2 years while in the other two there will be much older kids around and she’ll be able to stay through secondary school...

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WordsandMusic2020 · 05/04/2021 21:00

@MissScotland Ah, yes that's quite a specific query. Hope you're finding the info you need.