Grade 1 Violin failure

[Honeymum]

I've just had a text from my DD's violin teacher to say she's failed grade 1.

She has been with him for almost 2 years and has practiced regularly, particularly since we've been preparing for the exam (since last September). To my untrained ear the pieces sounded fine. After the exam the teacher (who accompanied her on the piano) said she had done well and he was pleased.

The scales and sight reading are done with the examiner only so he didn't hear these.

By text he said she talked through the pieces but I will get full story tomorrow.

I wanted to know how common it is to fail grade 1? Is it DD or the teacher? Should I try to switch?

Thanks

Oh and DD doesn't tune the violin - it's generally just tuned on her lesson day by the teacher.

Honeymum - sorry she didn't manage a pass. It sounds, like the others have said, like the teacher let her down.
A few things that might help her:
*Improve Your Sight Reading Grade 1 by Paul Harris, which introduces rhythms and notes gradually, until by the end of the book the pieces are grade 1 sight reading standard.
*There is an aural test practice book which comes with a CD so you can practise at home.
*If she hasn't used the 'Fiddletime' series, buy her Fiddletime Joggers. It comes with a CD. It's aimed at beginners (but grade 1ish pieces by the end of the book), so she could sight-read her way through at least half of the book and play along with the CD. Lots of the pieces are lively and good fun, and you can hear how they're meant to sound, which may help her tuning as she plays along.
*Did the last teacher play along with her? I think that masses of demonstrating (not just the beginner pieces, but showing them complex stuff too) and playing along is pretty crucial, and I wouldn't trust a teacher who just sat and gave instructions.
*Video her! Let her watch it back. See whether she notices that she's out of tune. (Doing this sorted out DS's slightly wonky bowing and helped him discover the importance of dynamics!)
*Consider taking her to a concert to see professional violinists in action - it can be inspirational for young children.
I do hope she's not dis-heartened and you find a teacher who will give her the musical education she deserves.

I have to agree that I think you are flogging a dead horse. She as failed twice, if she cannot hear she is out of tune how on earth can another teacher teach that to her... I am sorry if i sound harsh but it just seems a horrible loop she is in. If the other people who trained with this teacher have passed then surely it cannot be the teacher?

I have to say I strongly disagree with this and I very much hope honeymum doesn't take any notice of it.

Children don't generally just play an instrument like the violin in tune off their own bat. They are TAUGHT to do so by a proper teacher pointing out what to listen for. I leant the violin to grade 8 as a child before specialising in the piano and it just doesn't work that way. Yes, some people pick up intonation more readily than others, and some might require less teaching of it on the instrument because they naturally apply what they learnt doing Kodaly work etc in early childhood. But noone just "does it", and until a child has at least been shown what they are supposed to do it's very wrong to place that onus on the child rather than on the "teacher" who neglected to show them.

The key point that I think is being overlooked here is that the teacher didn't flag up the intonation problems. If the teacher had said all along - "gee, it's strange you know, I've tried to teach her to play in tune the way I teach everyone but she's just not getting it... oh I dunno, she might be ready for grade 1 but I'm a bit worried about her intonation" - and this situation had gone on and on despite attempts to rectify it, then you might have a point. But he didn't - he said that everything was fine and she would do well. He even said that after accompanying her in the exam room, so we know the failure wasn't due to freakish mistakes from nerves etc.

If the teacher is telling you he doesn't want to teach her (and the left handed thing is to make you feel a bit better) then you need to hear that. He is saying she cannot do it an you are wasting your money.

Yes, and we've established that the teacher is an ass who doesn't know what he's talking about. If he really knew that she had innate problems with the violin that would prevent her progressing, he would have said so BEFORE entering her for an exam she clearly wasn't up to. He's passing the buck to evade responsibility.

I could go and tell someone they're incapable of learning Japanese or Swahili because I haven't managed to teach them. It doesn't mean my opinion is worth anything.

Confidence - thank you for your post. I too think that he's passing the buck. I had disregarded what pinkytheshrinky had to say (no offence meant!). I am sure that DD will improve with another teacher. I can't say, you see, if he's got other kids through the early exams. I think most of his pupils are adults or young adults. I think he is not the right teacher for kids.

ImNotaCelebrity - thank you!! Lots of great points and tips. I think the teacher demonstrated but didn't necessarily play along with DD.

I'm currently looking for a new teacher - will let you all know how we get one once I've found one!!

Thank you for all your comments and suggestions. Wish us luck!!

Quick comment on the left handed comment... my DD is left handed and is grade 7 violin. It has never been a problem. Could it not be an advantage as the left hand does much of the work and needs to be stronger ? ( I don't play myself, so this may be way off track.)

I agree teacher is at fault here. I also wonder if a more Suzuki type approach might help her intonation and maybe even rhythm too. Listening to a piece being played perfectly on a regular basis, might well help her be more critical of he own performance.

People have given you lots of good ideas. It is really good that your daughter is keen to continue. A couple more things ...

She must have had an accompanist in the exam - what did s/he say about how it went. Or was it her teacher that accompanied her ?

Did your daughter have any practice sessions with the accompanist before hand ? These tend to be very useful for finding out how ready someone is to take the exam, and for helping a child get their intonation right. They are also just a good way to get a second opinion.

Also, did she listen to the pieces on the ABRSM cd that comes with the music so she knew how they should sound ? It is well worth doing.

Other people have mentioned things like video'ing herself so that she can see how she sounds.

It is well worth looking at the syllabus and seeing what needs to be covered, and checking that the teacher is covering everything. In our case a little chat with the teacher made it clear that he didn't feel he had much time to cover aural, so we found someone else to do a few sessions with our daughter (as it happened the same person that was going to accompany her in the exam). Over something like three sessions she went from potentially getting zero, to possibly getting nearly full marks.

For sight reading, read anything. In the early days my children sight read from nursery rhyme books, and later from easy play pop song book (I still shrink at the thought of the easy-play Abba book with a play-along CD) as well as more formal things. Just sight read something, anything, every day.

It is also worth doing a couple of practice exams before hand, just so the pupil can see what it feels like to play all the pieces through one after another with a pianist, and then be asked for random scales, and then do the other tests. Mini-concerts for relations are also a good idea.

Exams are a mixed blessing - when the results are good they can be very confidence inspiring. When the results are bad they can destroy the confidence. It is well worth spending a little time ahead trying to maximise the marks.

I am afraid I would change teacher. Do you know his other pupils ? How do they do ?

Where are you based ? Perhaps look for a teacher that has a program of group lessons.

Lastly, holiday courses are a very good way of meeting other children who play, and of meeting other teachers and seeing how other teachers work.

workingmother2 I agree that the ABRSM CD's/mp3 downloads are great to listen to. But I forgot to mention Speedshifter - a free download from the ABRSM site. It is great for pupils whose parents don't play piano/can't accompany them as they can set the speed they are working at and play along. It even works with any CD/mp3, not just the AB ones. I know many teachers hate pupils playing along with CD tracks, but surely it's better than never getting to play with the accompaniment until the exam?

Workingmother2 thanks for your post.

The teacher was her accompanist so she played along with him a lot before the exam (and sounded great or so I thought ). I don't know any of his other pupils - I am not sure if he teaches many children. Actually, there is someone from school who learns with him but I haven't seen her mum for ages to ask her....

Thanks for the tips about the ABRSM cds/downloads. We had one other teacher come in (at the teacher's suggestion) to give her a mock exam. But only once. I do wish I'd checked the syllabus. I trusted the teacher

We are based in Nottingham. Off on hols tomorrow but when we get back I'm going to pursue a couple of leads for a new teacher. I don't know of any holiday courses unfortunately.

Speedshifter soons good pugsandseals...will look into that.

We are both determined and I'm going to have a good old chat with DD once the dust has settled and we have the new teacher in place.

Once again thank you everyone for all of your comments and suggestions. I hope that others find this thread useful!

Well, I have just come across this thread looking for information on violin grading for 8/9 year olds (isn't MN great!). And I have read this with great interest.

My DS is 8, and has been playing violin at his school. It is a state school and they don't do grading. We have only been practising 5 mins a day , which I know was actually more than the other kids in his group.

He loves the violin, and it was his own idea to take lessons when he was 6. His teacher keeps on singling him out to play a piece for the others to listen to (as he can keep rhythm mainly, as well as nuances in loud and soft play) which he finds mortifying. He has written a few simple tunes himself (bless).

But he is obviously still very much a beginner!

The thing is, he is moving to private school after the summer and they offer violin lessons there (and they are quite competitive about grades I think, it's a very academic and musical sort of school).

The thing I am wondering about is, whether changing to a system with grades will take away some of the enjoyment?

I care more about him enjoying it, and getting technically better in his own time than ticking off grade 1, 2, 3 etc.

Just wondering if having a private teacher would be more fun than a school teacher focussed on grades.

Chandon, grades don't necessarily prevent enjoyment of learning, I would say only a minority of children find them so. You don't have to do all the grades either, even at private schools teachers do realise they don't suit everyone. There are other pros and cons to having music lessons in school vs private lessons though, but I'd consider the taking of grades to be a relatively minor consideration for most children.

More important points:

1. Are you concerned that you will rarely see the teacher to get feedback.
2. Does it worry you that your child will miss other school lessons for their music lesson and may forget to go or turn up late sometimes but you will have no control and often no knowledge of this.
3. Do you value having free time in the evenings for other activities, homework or just chilling and not having to ferry your child to/from music lessons, sit around for 30mins and then take them home.
4. Do you want to have a choice of teacher or are you happy to use whoever the school employs.

If you do try the school lessons and your child is one of the few who doesn't get on with grade exams you can always switch to a private teacher who is happy not to do grades, but you may find that your child enjoys them (and if he has that good sense of rhythm etc, doing well at them might boost his confidence too).

Just remembered another biggie that sometimes arises... If the school has music ensembles or stage musical events, if your child learns outside school they may be overlooked and left out.

thanks Snorkie, that's a few good things to think about.

the music teacher has said that if I want him take lessons, I can meet the teacher (and sit in for the first lesson) and that I'll have her e-mail and phone number for any questions. So that's quite good I think.

I value free time in the evening A LOT. As with 2 DC, I want to get the balance right and not have an after school activity every day.

So those are all good points!

Clearly the Teacher is diabolical but I wonder if the violin is not the right instrument and she may be better with a wind instrument. I am a natural wind player and hopeless with all the stringed instruments. She could continue violin but start a wind instrument and the progress would be much quicker given her two years experience on the violin. Maybe her confidence will rise if she sees she can achieve on another instrument.

Good luck!

I would suggest you go to Dave Mann on Mansfield Road (it's just before you get to the road join from Victoria Centre)(it's a shop, not a random man)
He will have loads of tips on finding a new teacher for her - he'll have loads of contacts and know who is good for drilling for exams etc.

I hope you find her a teacher that can help her pass.
obviously it's not all about passing exams, but it sounds like she's just not been given enough tuition in how to do it.

Hello again

I am the OP .

We now have a new teacher as of this week! She was recommended by a friend whose daughter is at grade 5 and she's 10 and a half (she's been learning the violin for about 4 - 4.5 years I think). We are very lucky to have found the teacher and to be taken on by her as she has a long waiting list but is very keen to take on DD as she is impressed by how committed she is despite the setbacks. She listened to DD play and said "with the right information" (a polite way of saying that DD was badly taught I think), she will be up to at least grade 3 standard this time next year.

The teacher teaches loads of kids, has never had anyone fail (she and her husband both teach), puts so many pupils through the ABRSM exams that the examiners come to her home and (probably best of all) is herself an ABRSM examiner. DD liked her a lot. Wish us luck!

PS Thanks to nickelbabe - asking at Dave Mann's was a good idea.

so happy for her - and you. Sounds excellent.

That's really good news- hope she carries on enjoying it!

Honeymum, that's fantastic news! Please update on how your DD progresses with her lessons. I'm guessing that you will be able to hear an improvement in her playing within a few weeks.

That's good news honeymum. Keep this thread updated, it's fascinating hearing about your dd's progress.

Excellent! And what admirable determination from you all!

Great! Hope she has many happy years playing. Definitely would like to hear how she gets on in the future.

Not a musician myself but I've sat in waiting rooms many times while DD took music exams - 20 I think. Some examiners are 'nice' and some are 'scary', and that's all I ever got out of her about how each exam went! I was always sure that her teachers wouldn't have entered her for an exam if she hadn't been ready though.

I hope the new teacher works out well for your DD. The previous one was certainly not preparing her properly. There is a preliminary exam they can take which results in an official certificate but no marks. The idea is that they have a taster of what it's like to perform for an examiner and then go for grade 1 a term or so later. He should have done this for your DD.

I hope the new teacher will allow your DD to skip grade 1 and head upwards. The landmark grades are 5 and 8, the rest are really stepping stones to those and it is perfectly OK to progress without passing every exam.

I admire your girl's grit. I won't be surprised if she turns out to be a really good player.

Thanks all!! I will keep you posted on her progress. Practice is going ok so far. She's really enthused by the new teacher, bless her.

Ah yes unitarian - she is full of grit. Not sure where she gets it! She's got the books for grade 2 in 2012 so I guess the plan is grade 2 in the Spring. She'll be playing other stuff too and rectifying issues with her bowing and posture too.