Brexit mega thread part 15a - looking forwards

[Talkinpeace]

Just rebooting the most recent thread

At the moment the UKs issues are rather over shadowed by events elsewhere
but maybe that is a good thing.

The German election on Sunday is worth watching
Right wing European politicians pulling out of CPAC speeches because they realise its not a good look
Farage floundering to stay relevant

and the possibility of the return of free movement for our kids if not us

Relations between mainland Europe and the UK remain a worthy topic for discussion

On tariffs and barriers I agree pointythings, they are part of the real world. A country should be able to agree to drop them or levy them, whatever it's citizens vote for. A superstate should have no authority to levy them or force a member state to levy or drop them.

Of course I'm not against joining CPTTPP, I've said this repeatedly! Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), is a trade agreement, not a superstate. It has no parliament, no president, no desire for it's own armed forces, etc.

Again, we are beginning to just circle the same argument now. Seriously, do try move the conversation on folks.

@LouiseCollins28 Why should a bloc of countries not levy tariffs but a country on its own should?

This is a great question, thank you.

Because a country is governed by a government that the people of that country can vote to remove if they don't like their economic policy (or any other policy tbh)

A bloc of countries isn't governed by a government that the citizens of those countries can vote, in one go, to remove. Also, holding power across the bloc might not be dependent on every country agreeing to everything, so you can have countries forced to follow the bloc's rules, even when that countrie's own electorate don't want them to.

Thing is, an organisation like the CPTPP will have the same rules around tariffs - because it makes no sense for one member of a trade organisation to do something that will adversely affect others. Those rules will absolutely be there - they will just be unwritten. If one member makes a tariff change that impacts the others, words will absolutely be had and changes made; it will just be all in back rooms and under the table.

But the CPTPP, which you've said you're in favour of, also has rules.

So is it just tariffs, but nothing else, or what?

You are making little sense at all.

CPTPP will have what amounts to a government, which will decide on what tariffs and standards have to be used by all members.

This is not complicated stuff...

The EU has expressed interest in joining the CPTPP...

It must be a bad thing in that case, we shouldn't go anywhere near it...

@LouiseCollins28 you forget the benefits of clout and economies of scale that being a part of a bloc like the EU granted us. Not to mention the fact that we were truly one of the most influential members. There are benefits to autonomy but in this globalised world competitiveness is all and market size matters (even the US is about to find out the consequences of disrupting the system).

I havent' forgotten them, I just place a different level of value on them. Autonomy vs economies of scale is an argument, you value one more highly than the other, I rank them the other way round.

Personally I'm very glad someone is "disrupting the system" it needs disrupting.

Unfortunately, the "disrupting the system" you're applauding is just making rich people richer and the poorest even poorer...

Never the biggest fan of Sting, but he's got a point...

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/sting-tells-french-tv-brexit-was-an-act-of-folly-394464/

“It was an act of folly and we are only beginning to understand how stupid it was.”

I so love it when slebs think they know better than everyone else and that their opinion is worth more than other people's. Sting appears to live in Italy, he clearly wants to live in an EU member state, I respect his choice.

https://www.thenewworld.co.uk/steve-anglesey-daniel-hannans-brexit-predictions-have-not-aged-well/

I'm pretty sure that Hannan has never been right about a single thing in his entire lifetime...

He lives in a bubble. At one point he was trawling Twitter to block people who criticised him in their tweets. He wasn't event @ into them.

What a win 🦄

https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/economics/article/predictions-of-40bn-hit-to-public-finances-from-brexit-correct-bzr63nw8d

Yes, but, Blue Passports...

Hurray for the blue passports, made in the EU

For those who have the Times paywall:

Chart-heavy thread incoming. This is an attempt to survey the research to answer the question - were the forecasts predicting a lot of Brexit damage correct? 1/n.

https://bsky.app/profile/johnspringford.bsky.social/post/3lsba2basvc2n

I am sure that all of the winners are delighted with the result they got

Happy Daniel Hannan Day to all Brexiteers!

🦄🎉

Some of Mystic Dan's greatest moments...

https://bsky.app/profile/ottoenglish.bsky.social/post/3lsdi5qqy7k2q

The UK has NEVER EVER been self sufficient in food.
How hard is that for you to comprehend.

I am not sure that we can say, never, ever but certainly not for at least a couple of centuries - at a time when the population was a good deal smaller than now.

@Peregrina
Wine and fruit and spices and cured meats have been imported through the south coast ports since Roman times if not before.

The idea of not trading in food is very surreal.