Brexit mega thread part 15a - looking forwards

[Talkinpeace]

Just rebooting the most recent thread

At the moment the UKs issues are rather over shadowed by events elsewhere
but maybe that is a good thing.

The German election on Sunday is worth watching
Right wing European politicians pulling out of CPAC speeches because they realise its not a good look
Farage floundering to stay relevant

and the possibility of the return of free movement for our kids if not us

Relations between mainland Europe and the UK remain a worthy topic for discussion

Are those unicorn tears?

@GlobeTrotter2000 your perceptions of what other countries are like say more about you than about them.

Yep, I think Unicorn tears is about right...

Hear bloody hear.

A proper trade agreement and free movement for the young will benefit the UK and most European countries.
I'd like to start with that.

Of course you would. So, by choosing to "start" with free movement, you've bascially chosen the 'undo Brexit immediately' option.

I thought you wanted a discussion about "how we get from where we are to somewhere better?" You appreciate that this doesn't involve you immediately getting everything that you want, right?

Despite the evidence to the contrary, I'll still take you at your word that this is what you want "more discussion about how we get...to somewhere better"
What's improper about the latest trade agreement?

Still, lets say a new trade agreement is made, what are you offering people who want to stay out of the EU's ambit, to encourage them to embrace a new deal?

Still, lets say a new trade agreement is made, what are you offering people who want to stay out of the EU's ambit, to encourage them to embrace a new deal?

Well, considering some of us have had 'you lost, get over it' dinned into our ears since 2016, I don't actually care if some die hard stubborn brexit cultists would rather continue to cut off their nose to spite their face. Our government was elected on a manifesto commitment of closer collaboration with the EU, and so they have a mandate to do this. Perhaps some other people should now get over it.

Still, lets say a new trade agreement is made, what are you offering people who want to stay out of the EU's ambit, to encourage them to embrace a new deal?

So you do not want cheaper food (brought from the EU to the UK without customs delays)
You do not want seasonal workers who go home when the work stops ?
You do not want UK pensioners to be able to go to warmer climes for the winter without a 90 day limit ?
You do not want EU water standards to apply to UK rivers again ?

Really ?

I think you've misunderstood, or maybe I have. I thought Talkinpeace was saying they wanted a new trade deal, i.e. that the one just agreed by the Starmer govt was somehow insufficient?

You're correct to say that the current U.K. government used their mandate to renegotiate with the E.U., I've not said they didn't have such a mandate.

Oh for the love of God!! I DO NOT want the things you want.

If we are going to have a meaningful discussion you really need to understand this...

ANYTHING you view as a positive in politics, government, international relations, or whatever related sphere. I DO NOT view positively and I don't want it.

No I do not want any of your above offerings. Try again please. Honestly, trying to have a discussion with some of you is like talking to a wall.

@LouiseCollins28
So you are saying you do not want the products on international trade ?
Where do you buy your food ?
What car do you drive ?
Where do you buy your clothes ?

I am very happy to shop from international suppliers.
I'm sure some of the things I buy come from within the EU. I wish they didn't but I'm sure they will.
I don't drive
My clothes probably come from all sorts of places. Everything I'm wearing today, for example, was apparently made in Bangladesh

That level of hatred of the EU is just baffling. Completely, utterly baffling. And no different from hating people just because they are foreign. It's visceral and without any rational basis. My brain doesn't get it.

It's entirely irrational, that's why we can't have a proper discussion with her. Her viewpoint does not bear any kind of logic.

Taking a different view from the one you take on a political issue is not irrational. That's claiming that my view rather than simply being different from yours lack any reason or logic. They don't.

Where have I expressed hatred, btw?

@LouiseCollins28
I'm sure some of the things I buy come from within the EU. I wish they didn't but I'm sure they will.
Why do you wish that wine and fruit and salad and baked beans did not come from the EU ?

Because I'd prefer to have as little to do with their governance standards and structures as I can. In a European/world food system that's basically impossible and I've always accepted that it is impossible.

To be fair, when I'm food shopping, where stuff comes from is fairly low on the priorities list, price and quality being the more important considerations.

I'd hoped that we'd see more food imported from other parts of the world and more produced locally but I've noticed very little (if any) change on either count.

How are EU governance standards worse than those in other places? What places in the world do you consider to have governance standards that you would be happy with in terms of purchasing food?

Your level of ideological adherence is mind blowing.

Iirc Louise preferred the urine smelling St Pancras

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/eurostar-trains-london-germany-switzerland/

They aren't worse. They are unwelcome, to me, because they are set by a super-state. U.K. standards set by the U.K. government don't have that problem, nor do Indian standards set by the Indian government,... etc.

Again, people seem fundamentally to be misunderstanding the nature of my objection to the E.U's structures, standards and powers.

UK water standards are going so well

I think we're getting it. It's ideological, irrational, cultish. It's a religion to you, and you can't argue with people who have taken that leap of faith.

It's not a different view though. It's an entirely irrational hatred of anything with the letters "E" and "U" in it. It's not a viewpoint!

Frankly, it's more like a mental health problem...

It's not a religion. It's simply a desire not to be governed by a European super-state or to be a citizen of a European super-state.

Anyhow, we've started to circle again and some of you wanted to talk about how we get to something better.

So, having voted for a pro-EU party and seen a pro-EU government formed, your first priority was apprently re-establishing free movement, which will require resumption of membership of the single market. That's not remotely in the U.K's gift but hey-ho.

It's interesting to me that your first priority would be re-establishing one of the most controversial elements of our former relationship with the E.U. particularly at a time when current national polling predicts a Reform majority at the next general election (I'll believe that when I see it, not before) but that's what the polls say.

OK then MaybeNotBob, what does "acceptable" Euroscepticsm look like to you?

Go on, have at it, police my speech to your heart's content. Tell me, how anti-European am I allowed to be without being labelled "a mental health problem?"