Brexit mega thread part 13: All eyes on Ireland

[SerendipityJane]

With the Windsor framework up & running, and the DUP having a "you could set your calendar by it" hissy fit, but Irish unification refusing to keep it's head down, what next in the long running sage of UK vs. the real world ?

@prettybird - thank you for that, I felt sure I wasn't imagining things, though in fact I was only listening to R4 (mostly PM, sometimes Toady) at the time.

The EU is a member of the WTO and trades with Countries like Singapore under WTO.

Most countries are members of the WTO (164). There is a FTA in place between the EU and Singapore (signed in 2018). Pure WTO rules were pretty much the worst case option for the UK.

WTO rules apply when other agreements are not in place.
To the best of my knowledge only Venezuela and North Korea trade on purely WTO basis with all other countries.

Can you provide a link, or supply evidence that you personally know each of the persons who voted leave and they all voted leave for a different reason?

= Twat...

The EU is a member of the WTO and trades with Countries like Singapore under WTO.
Globe does not seem to understand the significance of the WTO mebership where it is like 'Tennis', the pitch size and markings are established and that fact there should be 2 or 4 players equiped woth racquets and balls but that NONE of the EQUIPMENT is provided by the WTO but only the rules so it is up to the UK NOW to negotiate with the 130 or so different and interconnected trade blocks around the world so the UK has to relinquish some 'sovereignty' to other trading nations IF the UK wants to get terms 'better' than the WTO 'Base rate' which is seen as essential by everybody else. Unfortunately the decent negotiators that the UK HAD have either left to work in and with the EU or have retired (or sacked by the tories).
The Front National in France (Le Pen) is also falling into this trap by blathering on about 'sovereignty' without understanding (or being disingenuous) in their attempt to take control of the French parliament. Similarly AfD and the Italian parties etc.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/346b9794-b020-49de-ba19-8c9d86b3a4cd?shareToken=94fb6be0c2891de08a5b44956b227cea

and the turnips ?

The neeps will have to look for different friends

@Talkinpeace WTO rules apply when other agreements are not in place.

Correct. They are the starting point for deals to be made.

@HannibalHeyes
Can you provide a link, or supply evidence that you personally know each of the persons who voted leave and they all voted leave for a different reason?

= Twat...

At least you were brave enough to admit that you can't provide proof. Also, for information, it contradicts an earlier post in which you stated the proof that all leavers are racist is that they voted for Brexit. ie they voted for the same reason as opposed to 17 million different reasons.

@IItisymoi so it is up to the UK NOW to negotiate with the 130 or so different and interconnected trade blocks around the world so the UK has to relinquish some 'sovereignty' to other trading nations

Can you name a country that trades with every other country in the world?

UK is the fifth largest exporters in the World as per the link below. The only EU member who is larger is Germany.

Exports by Country 2024 (datapandas.org)

Yes Globe, there there.

I'm afraid that your Junior School Debating Society has not given you the skills that you seem to think it has...

Good grief Globe you are so boring and useless. Iceland (the country) took 7 years to establish a good set of trade agrements for FISH alone and accepted all the tariffs necessary when trading with other countries; The BIG problem for the UK is that it NEEDS many hundreds of at least decent trade deals just to survive as the UK is not self sufficient in food or raw materials for industry, ot at least not enough to dig it out of the mASSIVE trade deficit that the UK is currently 'enjoying'. If you had bothered to read the Brexit threads and LEARNED anything it would be a start but you are just a bore now.
The talk guidelines instrucy you to be RESPECTFUL so you need to comply with this and show respect by not talking(writing) out of your backside.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13600635/Brexit-Remainers-use-polling-day-gloat-Labour-looks-poised-victory-renegotiate-split-Brussels-former-EU-boss-Jean-Claude-Juncker-leaves-door-open-Britain-rejoining-bloc.html

Well at least we’re seeing the real time implosion of the Conservative Party, as predicted on the Westminstenders and subsequent threads years ago. We are past the gradual, and into the sudden phase (see Hemingway). The supreme architect of this, and of Brexit, was the clown Johnson, still exerting his malign influence among certain die hard fans. The dead hand of Brexit is still affecting our economy, and will continue to do so for God knows how long. Hopefully Labour have some good workarounds, but they will never compare to the full unfettered access - plus a voice at the table - that we had until that ill advised referendum

There is a current thread about "when did you know it was over for the tories ?"

As always the answer is when they - against all sage advice - decided to become the Brexit party. And it's worth reminding ourselves that they did this out of their own venal self serving desire.

Also, I think the incline has changed. Yes in previous years the Tory party has demonstrated it can use the slightest downward trajectory to re-emerge from the swamp. However I think this time the incline is up all the way. And if we know one thing about Tories it is how spectacularly lazy they are.

I think Starmer is foolish to say that the UK won't rejoin the EU in his lifetime.
Back in 1988 I thought the map of Europe was drawn for all time. The following year - whoosh, E Europe and the USSR fell apart.

However, assuming he becomes PM - if he's talking about his political lifetime, that is about 5 years as leader, probably ten at max. After that, there will be a new generation who have a very different outlook on the world than the current 50 plus generation.

UK not rejoining the EU : perfectly fair. Most EU countries are sick of us.

UK not realigning with and joining the Single Market : ferkin stupid

If this was an ecclesiastical thread then I believe Starmer would not be speaking "ex Cathedra" as it were. It's basically his opinion.

I was incredibly disappointed to read this. Ruling out any of those three options seemed unnecessary. FGS we had less immigration under FoM and in another few years, who knows, most industries may be begging to at least join the customs union. What was the point of making this claim now? It’s not as if this GE is based on bloody Brexit.

@SerendipityJane Brexit is over!

More wishful thinking by remainers. The link provided by Prettybird is more accurate as it refers to what Starmer has actually said as opposed to remain supporters wish list.

It's basically his opinion.

More desperation by remainers.

@Peregrina After that, there will be a new generation who have a very different outlook on the world than the current 50 plus generation.

So, remainers still think they can forecast the future with certainty.

@prettybird

It's why I and millions of others voted for Labour.

Labour learnt their lesson in the 2019 GE and got their worst result in 85 years when they tried to ignore the referendum result of 2016.

@DrBlackbird What was the point of making this claim now? It’s not as if this GE is based on bloody Brexit.

It was based on democracy. Labour won because Starmer said during the campaign that Labour would respect the 2016 referendum result.

@Talkinpeace UK not rejoining the EU : perfectly fair. Most EU countries are sick of us.

More speculation. Can you name the EU countries who are sick of the UK and provide links and evidence. UK buys more the the EU than the EU buys from the UK. So, why would the EU be sick of the UK?

@HannibalHeyes

Do you now realize that the UK does not want to be part of the EU?

2016 - UK voted to leave
2019 - Johnson won the 2019 because he said Brexit would happen. Remain supporters could have cancelled Brexit by voting for LibDems, but they did not.

2024 - Starmer storms the GE as he said UK would not rejoin the EU.

...

So, remainers still think they can forecast the future with certainty.

No, as a student of history, it can be observed that an issue which tears one generation apart is often not an issue for the next generation.

2016 - UK voted to leave
2019 - Johnson won the 2019 because he said Brexit would happen.

You seem to have missed it Globetrotter - the UK did leave. You don't seem to realise that. Johnson also said that there would be no border in the Irish Sea. What happened to that promise?

Remain supporters could have cancelled Brexit by voting for LibDems, but they did not.

Interestingly enough:, Witney, the seat of the man who called the Referendum because he was frit of UKIP, has now gone LibDem.
Henley and Thame - the seat once of Johnson, who was one of the main proponents of Brexit, has also gone LibDem. (Supposedly True Blue Henley)
There are now no Tory seats in Oxfordshire, but there are 2 Labour and 5 Lib Dem.

Surrey Heath - Gove's old seat, who didn't bother to defend his seat, is now held by a Lib Dem.

Just a little under five years ago, posters here crowed about the Tory's 80 seat win. Now they have had their worse result ever (in part because Farage and cronies siphoned off the Tory vote). 121 seats, with two still to be declared so the most they could win now would be 123.

Arch Brexiter Rees-Mogg - gone. Give him his due though, he did try to defend is seat.

I am pleased that Reform got 15% of the vote. They beat the Liberals by 1%, but lost out on seats due to FPTP.