to still be angry about Brexit?

[mrsmootoo]

I've mentioned this before and got shot down - 'move on', 'we won, you lost', 'red wall was justified', 'democracy' (although as Brexiter David Davis said, democracies can change their minds) etc etc. Anyway, if anything I am even more angry now than in 2016! Seeing queues at Dover/airports etc (I know not only down to Brexit, but it makes it worse) just reinforced it. I'm not going to rehash all the reasons here, but am just interested in whether other people are still as furious as I am. (And I do know it's not doing my stress levels any good!)

Well one positive I suppose is that for all the sabre rattling of going to the Supreme Court for another referendum, it has utterly sunk the case of the SNP for independence as they can't answer how they would create and enforce a hard boarder with England, as well as having to accept joining the Euro rather than this half baked suggestion of keeping the pound linked to to the U.K.

They keep saying there wouldn't be and their 60% of exports to England and Wales would keep flowing freely....but it won't and the evidence is there

Study after study has shown that immigrants contribute far more in tax than they take in benefits, especially as the vast majority are of working age.

This is extremely well documented but the fact that the evidence being there in black and white still doesn't stop so many individuals, politicians and certain sections of the press bollocking on about immigrants taking advantage of our "generous" (ha!) Benefit system tells you everything you need to know about this country and why we voted to Leave. All the fake hand-wringing and faux concern about protecting our public services and euphemisms like "taking back control". Just say "I don't like immigrants" and be done with it.

Yes they contribute NOW and the studies reflect that - but are they the recipient of eternal youth? No of course not, they will grow old, need replacements and pensions and all the rest. And it won’t look so rosy then. Think more long term fgs

You don't seem to understand the concept of 'net contributors'.

As ever, leavers don't know what they don't know.

I am waiting for the HRA to be axed.

Why?

OP I left the UK after 15 years there partly b/o Brexit (also b/o class and the absolute awfulness of Tories in power) and tbh I don't feel so much angry as traumatized by it.

Over six years later I still haven't kicked my Guardian habit and my chin still hits the floor once in a while at the entitled viciousness of the British right in power. It feels like being unable to take your eyes off a car crash, even knowing that the gawping does nobody any good.

Solidarity, then - it's nice to know that I'm not the only one struggling to get over the experience. Seen from a distance, it is quite interesting how the UK went from Blairite progressivism which, for all its faults, was pragmatic and fact-based (until Iraq happened) and well-intentioned if not always effective, to its current fit of madness. What flagstone did the current generation of Tories crawl out from under, and just why can't Labour find a backbone in response to this shitshow? Let me know if you've worked that one out....

Only in the sense that all the decent / intelligent Tory MPs have gone. The shittest PM ever will be replaced by, at best, the second shittest.

Not if they arrived aged 45 plus. And we had no way of insisting that everyone arrives to pay in decades of tax did we? So anyone could come and have their hips replaced, claim benefits with a 5 hour car wash job for a few months.

We have a time bomb of old and fire people we already can’t pay for! Your idea is to have many millions more!!!! And you can’t see the fiscal holes in your position??

• frail

I was a remainer through and through at the time of the vote but no I don’t feel angry about it now

Me too.

Don't be so silly festoon - the studies take those future needs into account and it's still a net benefit to the host country.

"I do think that if it hadn’t gone the way I wanted, I would have made my peace with it by now! (At least I hope I would)."

There's a certain irony that when the UK voted to remain in Europe in the 70's people campaigned against it anf various forms of European integration for the next 50 odds years but now only 6 years later people should make peace with brexshit.

Britain campaigned multiple times to join the common market even after being veto'd by degaulle. There was a very good reason for that and yet now we've turned our back on free frictionless trade with Europe, and most of us will end up worse off because of it.

And you can’t see the fiscal holes in your position??

Well you’re not great at spotting the lack of logic in yours. If we have old and frail people we can’t pay for, surely it would be a good plan to import some more taxpayers to boost the coffers? Particularly those who put in more than they take out?

If we have old and frail people we can’t pay for, surely it would be a good plan to import some more taxpayers to boost the coffers? Particularly those who put in more than they take out?

Particular those who go on to be doctors, nurses, carers, social workers etc. Professions currently facing a recruitment and retention crisis.

This would be funny if it wasn’t so awful. How can anyone speak of the ‘benefits of Brexit’.

And you can't see that we've shot ourselves in the foot by getting rid of the very people who were alleviating the black hole in the NHS and social care?

And we had reciprocal tax agreements and state pension agreements across different nations as an EU member.

Forgot to paste the link 🫢

twitter.com/peterstefanovi2/status/1549386216780570633

Net contributors are only net contributors if they are able to contribute! It’s not easy if you are 55 and here with sketchy English and non transferrable skills.

In your mind every European Is a hard working, well educated net contributor of at least four decades serving our trusty NHS and only brings their amazing skills and continental charm with them - it’s eye popping just how deeply inaccurate that is. Clearly you have never dealt with the Romanian and Bulgarian gangs !!!!

They aren't. It's extremely noticeable on this thread that, when asked to give specific examples of benefits, there's a rather angry return to rehashing the usual arguments about immigrants and benefits that have been discredited a million times already.

We have a million tax payers sitting on the dole

Net contribution is calculated on a collective level @Festoonlights.

Me too. It has damaged so much.

And I will never understand why David Cameron never heeded the many many warnings he must have had regarding the position of NI and the importance of both the UK and Ireland being in the EU. Even if nothing else mattered, peace in NI should have done.

If you want to talk about Brexit go on to the Brexit board, that's what it's there for.

This is the 2nd or 3rd post in a week about Brexit. Is there nobody on the Brexit board for you to argue with anymore? Are you just bored with each other over there?

We have a million tax payers sitting on the dole

Then they’re not taxpayers, are they? Meanwhile some industries have acute recruitment problems that they didn’t have before Brexit.

Please don't tell me what's in my mind festoon, as you really have no idea.

Yes, of course net contributors are only net contributors if they are able to contribute. The studies that show repeatedly that a host country benefits from immigration accommodate the fact that a minority may fall ill or may be less able to contribute than others. There may be some who take more than they contribute, but overall this is not the case.
There are plenty of EU countries that have been taking in UK citizens. Spain has masses of UK citizens who went their to retire. It isn't all one way and it never has been.