to still be angry about Brexit?

[mrsmootoo]

I've mentioned this before and got shot down - 'move on', 'we won, you lost', 'red wall was justified', 'democracy' (although as Brexiter David Davis said, democracies can change their minds) etc etc. Anyway, if anything I am even more angry now than in 2016! Seeing queues at Dover/airports etc (I know not only down to Brexit, but it makes it worse) just reinforced it. I'm not going to rehash all the reasons here, but am just interested in whether other people are still as furious as I am. (And I do know it's not doing my stress levels any good!)

2016 Leave.EU campaign video - all the promises in 90 seconds. That's going well..

As always you ‘remain’ quite literally in the dark about the reasons we have left despite the years of patient explanations. Fingers in your ears you scream over everyone that you are ‘right’, and the majority is wrong so you never did cotton on to why we are no longer part of the EU. Now you are left stumbling in confusion and anger reduced to insulting people on forums.

It was never about the money.
It wasn’t really anything to do with immigration in truth.
Or the billions saved now we are not paying to have our opinions ignored.
If we pay tens of millions/billions to leave I would still happily agree to do so. I suspect most of us would.

It was always about control.

The EU had become the equivalent of an abusive marriage and not the equitable, voluntary alliance we first joined.

I am sorry you still can’t see it, and probably never will. For you it is all about £7 visas and a queue at the port, and no decent cheap cleaners and god forbid being on ‘the outside’. As if that were a negative.

It doesn’t matter if brexit does or doesn’t pay out, for me breaking out of the stranglehold of the EU will always be enough.

What I, and the majority, saw was an expensive prison (and so proved to be as we tried to leave) , you saw a cocoon/oasis. I am now of the opinion that it can’t be resolved through debate, understanding for other views or a degree of empathy for each side. There appears to be no room for reasoned thought just a solid wall of talk to the hand. It’s all too emotional and volatile even now.

I can’t help you anymore. In time you will see and understand I suspect, until then I will leave you to shout in collective misery. Vent away.

Better to rule in hell than live in heaven then.

Well, you won the vote - now you need to make your hell.

No venting here, just sad at what Brexiteers have done to the UK and hope the younger generation can forgive and forge a better relationship with the EU in the future, once the current crop of politicians have gone.

Trade deals will always involve some loss of sovereignty, and the UK had a great deal of control - some of which it chose not to take - and a very good deal compared to other EU countries.

The outcome of the Brexit vote might be greater control - but it has also weakened and impoverished the UK.

@Festoonlights

I am now of the opinion that it can’t be resolved through debate, understanding for other views or a degree of empathy for each side.

(My emphasis).

You're right, there was apparently zero empathy from a chunk of the 52% when the right wing grabbed the referendum result with both hands, went for as hard as Brexit as they could get and didn't give a toss about the 48%.

I'm not sure why you should now expect empathy to be displayed in return.

I agree that perhaps there was room for a more nuanced deal but I think you forget that the remainers fought a very very dirty war - especially towards the end - and there was no opportunity to do anything but get the deal (as it was) over the line.
Had the remain side shown some willingness to wholly respect the result, sit down and work out a genuine collective way forward then things may have turned out differently. But they didn’t.

It was a fight to the end that served no one well.

@Festoonlights you are absolutely deluded if you think it wasn't about immigration for masses that voted for it- my twitter and Facebook were inundated with truly dreadful comments about Muslims, Pakis (sic) , Syrians )although wtf this had to do with the EU I don't know. You may well be comfortably off enough to think it's all worth it just for control-- many many other leave voters actually voted based on immigration and the 350m for NHS- which is complete poppycock- they believed Farage and Johnson saying there would be no change- you remember them saying 'who is threatening our place in single market, customs union' !!! They were fed a load of bunkum that benefitted the rich mainly- who not suprisingly still have a lot more options open to them because they have cash. Look at Rees Mogg, busy telling all his clients to move their money to Ireland and it's proved to be complete hogwash that people from EU were stealing other peoples jobs- no one wants those jobs!! Far too many who have taken money out their houses or pension funds and don't need/want to work or are unemployable or have caring responsibilities/childcare issues.

What dirty war did remainers fight?

I think it involved facts - or "devils dumplings" as Brexiteers such as Festoonlights call them

Brexit dealings were so prolonged it got to the stage I was out too, even though a remainer

When people say they wanted a remain version of it do they meaning including FOM?

Can you imagine having a passport that gave you the right and freedom to live study and work in anyone of 31 countries and voting to give it up and take it away from your own children!
Then you bleat on about how much freedom this has given you, that we are now free to dump our shit in the sea and use bee killing pesticides on our land. Any other new found freedoms I've missed that were worth taking all those opportunities and rights from our young people?

@MarshaBradyo you seem to be developing an obsession about FOM- do you think loads of EU folk are going to rush here these days - I think some will for work but mainly young people for a few years at a time- I'm more concerned about the amount of South Asians and phillipinos that they will allow in instead of EU to fill these gaps- as far less likely to come for short periods and all ages. Extremely pointless in my opinion. At least with FOM within EU it worked both ways.

For the love of god can people not answer a post without a dig 🙄 😂

batshit

I’m interested in what people mean by a softer Brexit

What is it you wanted?

Can anyone without an insult say what they would have liked

Moving past just pointless posts with digs

imo FOM was a big deal for Brexit voters. Again I voted remain it does not mean I can’t try to understand what mattered to people who voted differently

Maybe I have that wrong and people who voted Brexit will post it didn’t matter to them as much as other factors - great I’ll have new info

Sometimes it’s useful to understand why rather than all the berating

I don’t blame anyone just want to know more re why

Staying in the cu and sm = soft Brexit imo.
It would also have prevented any reigniting the troubles in NI.
Yes it would have included keeping FoM but what's the problem with that?

imo FOM was a big deal for Brexit voters.
I agree, just about every Leave voter I know had only one thing in mind, immigrants, when they voted. As much as they hated immigrants from Europe, they hated brown immigrants even more and the people I know thought they were voting to stop brown people coming here. The one good thing about Brexit is that it has resulted in the very opposite, more brown people, and I absolutely delight in showing Leave voters the figures.

As for the sm and cu, most people in the UK didn't have a clue what they were (including MPs). This isn't some sort of insult, Dominic Cummings extensive research showed this. The leave side have said that's why they didn't campaign on it.

@MarshaBradyo

Can anyone without an insult say what they would have liked

Not sure I would have liked it but personally I would have found it easier to accept the "Norway option" much touted by some politicians, perhaps as the end result of a multi year transition.

www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2019/11/08/when-he-supported-norway-the-brexit-policy-farage-would-rather-forget/

That would have been in keeping with the wishes of the 52% but also respected at least some extent honoured the views of the 48% who also voted.

Problem is doing that probably would have entailed the UK staying in the EEA, at least temporarily, and that in turn would have meant AFAIK a continuation of FOM which as we now know would have breached certain red Lines much loved by some individuals..

The cynical might suspect that some of those floating the Norway option publicly, in the media etc, prior to the vote might have been deliberately preparing the bait for a "bait and switch"...The more generous might be more prepared to think those individuals had a genuine change of heart over the mode of leaving after the result came out.

I take great exception and offence to your description and use of language, I am
not sure how you have the sheer audacity to post what you have, and call other people racist! Really can you not come up with anything better than the boring notion that all brexiteers are racists?! I guess you can’t.

I agree those types of posts aren’t useful although I agree it was always very complex - even for government let alone public

I’m wondering if a soft Brexit is more with remainers than people who voted for Brexit. And really where FOM sits in priorities

Because afaik taking it away pretty much always lands you in a hard Brexit?

Imnot yes good reminder of red lines I’d forgotten that phase

@Festoonlights

Name just 1 tangible benefit of how Brexit has made your life better.? Just 1

Remainers dirty campaign? Literally when? Leave was the only campaign that broke electoral law and was punished accordingly

Control? How has that changed?
We will still need to comply with EU law as they are our biggest and closest trading market.

FOM changing means we have chronic labour shortages in the NHS and agriculture. Other sectors too but those are the 2 I know about.

You write paragraphs and paragraphs of absolute piffle, whiffle, hot air and BS. You never post any facts or links to back up anything you are saying.

I honestly wish Brexit was a success but sadly it isn't. I honestly wish I was wrong.

This nation was lied to by the Leave campaign - how can you not see that? Name one thing that has come to fruition - just one.

What good is it doing for you this "being angry" thing?

Immigration from beyond the EU has increased.

So if your partner cheats, lies and double downs on those cheats and lies. Forgive and forget eh ! What good does it do to get angry ?

What most sensible people want now is recognition that we have veered terribly off course steered by a small cabal of Tories who are way off mandate and we want a more constructive and productive relationship with our biggest trading partner the EU. We are angry we are so far from that and will continue to be so. But what is quite clear now is this bunch of tossers will need to be shown the door before that can begin.