to still be angry about Brexit?

[mrsmootoo]

I've mentioned this before and got shot down - 'move on', 'we won, you lost', 'red wall was justified', 'democracy' (although as Brexiter David Davis said, democracies can change their minds) etc etc. Anyway, if anything I am even more angry now than in 2016! Seeing queues at Dover/airports etc (I know not only down to Brexit, but it makes it worse) just reinforced it. I'm not going to rehash all the reasons here, but am just interested in whether other people are still as furious as I am. (And I do know it's not doing my stress levels any good!)

Oh wow vera that is a long diatribe - perhaps people will just travel to countries where it is easier no?! I should think after the flights shambles all over Europe most tourists will simply choose nice easy options like Turkey, Switzerland, Norway, Maldives etc for next summer where they will be very welcome! Problem solved ☀️

It’s only remainers that insist on driving to France come what may in the trusty Volvo, the rest of us realise there is a an entire world out there.
Dare I say it even remainers may have their horizons stretched as a result and experience lateral thinking for the first time.

@Festoonlights You're back! Great. My answer to your question is on page 21.

Please could you answer my question:
So @Festoonlights I have given you the perspective of one of the sectors that employs the most people in the UK.
Please tell me the benefits that you are experiencing - you have posted a lot but I don't think you've mentioned a tangible benefit. Also what sector are you in?

@Festoonlights I'm like cut and paste Clav but working for the other side! She was busy on the Liz Truss thread but had to go on holiday when her smears were called out.

Anyway glad that our PM and Chancellor are enjoying themselves on holiday - wonder if Boris has found the wi-fi password yet to check what's going on in his no doubt billionaire's free luxury villa in the Maldives or some such.No more camping in a tent in Scotland for Johnson and his ex-mistress wife and current paramour.

I see you are back again with the really bizarre and odd fixation on the idea that "Remainers" haven't travelled, and that they'd have some sort of epiphany if only they has seen the world.

The reality is some of us have seen a lot of the globe and recognise a sub-optimal Border and customs experience when we see it.

On this I do agree at least he won’t have to stay in that cold shed or tent or whatever it was, in the wind 😂

Honestly who cares about a queue - I don’t.
I’ll choose another destination if the French can’t sort out their staffing as will most people.

We are in industries that will benefit from the red EU tape being cut and laws changed to make it easier to trade with rest of the world. We directly benefitted by being vaccinated super early and not with 27 other countries that had a far slower roll out, so we could get back to normal quickly.
I am excited about the future - we will never join an EU army or be railroaded into endless immigration and pointless EU laws. We will I am sure organise a very effective points based system. I welcome more immigration from the commonwealth - they have shown us historic loyalty and shared interests.

I am very happy with the way things are going - the pandemic and war have really not helped - but long term I am extremely optimistic.

I am just getting on a flight to Jordan - can’t wait! See the world folks, it’s incredible beyond the limited confines of the costa brava. Get behind this great country - at the very least keep an open mind and be positive - for your dc if nothing else. Over and out.

What an odd statement . I have lived and travelled widely . My immediate family encompass several different nationalities ( not European) but we travel across the channel for study and leisure and not just to France but Holland and Germany and also because it’s a greener option now than flying to distant shores.

My horizons are much broader than the U.K. which is why I realise that the ‘little Englander’/colonial model is so outdated . The only people who have really benefitted from Brexit are the commodity and hedge fund traders in the City who profit from uncertainty. But given your dh job in the City I suspect you already know that .

@Festoonlights you really are quite thick aren't you?

You can't name 1 single tangible benefit even though you have been asked multiple times.

'Honestly, who cares about a queue?' - I refer you to my previous answer on page 21. You fail to grasp even the most basic concept of bigger picture thinking.

You do realise that 99% of the 'EU red tape' will remain in place don't you? As we will have to comply to EU standards to trade with them, as, you know, they are out biggest and closest market.

Immigration - we could've monitored people coming and going before Brexit but successive governments chose not to do that.

Vaccinations - yes we were initially faster but our death toll far, far worse. How countries relaxed quarantine was up to them.

I welcome immigration full stop.

I have a feeling that you are an older retired / semi-retired individual who just thought of yourself and disregarded the millions of younger people who have hampered life experiences due to Brexit

I have a feeling that you are an older retired / semi-retired individual who just thought of yourself and disregarded the millions of younger people who have hampered life experiences due to Brexit

I’m not sure she even has this excuse given the other thread she is currently on .

Any more news on all the companies pouring into London @Festoonlights?

Yes, if only us Remainers had travelled or even lived abroad I am sure we would be much happier about Brexit (not)
If I didn’t think I would get deleted for calling someone a complete idiot ................

Apparently the queues at Dover aren't lon enough yet to teach us pesky remainers the lesson we so sorely need.

Luckily we have Grant "what's a brain" Shapps on the job. Whereas you or I would have given it up as a bad job, he really knows his stuff.

Apparently the UK will scrap the niggling need for an additionally licence to drive lorries over 68.9 cwt. This will not only help cull the old and infirm that can't get out of the way quick enough (and who wants to see them out and about anyway) but also mean that every single UK-driven goods vehicle will need an additional check at Dover. Because if you think the French are going to allow a bunch of UK amateur lorry drivers all over La Belle France you really are deluded.

I guess this means the "nasty EU" narrative will be kept alive for another election.

That's scary, I thought the HGV license was very important for,obvious reasons

@Hoppinggreen I got a post deleted for calling someone the Marie Antoinette of mumsnet!!

Remember Brexit was all about tearing up red tape. So actually wasting time and money ensuring someone can throw a 10-tonne vehicle around is just so ... well foreign.

The reality is (of course) as with all the other bullshit Brexiteers spout, this is really just an old fashioned Tory media snap ...

-> Tory Media (in this case the Express) publish
-> a jingoistic "We'll show those EU bastards"
-> batshit crazy idea
-> backed by some loon from the Tory party
-> that causes a brief slowdown in internet traffic while Brexiteers have a "special moment" over it. (Why do you think posters here are so ...sporadic)
-> to immediate ridicule (i.e. the light of day) from sensible people
-> allowing said Brexiteers to play the victim card and blame remainers for not "getting behind" their masterplan.

Generally the only time I would get behind Grant Shapps would be if it was sufficiently high enough for a damn good push.

Incidentally, the blueprint above is needed as - for better or for worse - the Toy party is the Brexit party. Rather unwisely they have hitched their wagon to a single-issue cause since the old "Frenchy Catholic" one was looking a tad hackneyed.

Brexit has now become an existential element of Tory survival. They need to re-fight it every election because they have fuck all else going on.

Billy Bragg (big house by the seaside I know) summed up beautifully and very poignantly what so many voted to leave in this song "The Full English Brexit". There is a sadness there ...sadly which most of us "remainers" would not want nor could understand. Let's hope that we are not on the brink of civil unrest ... if so the Tories have poured petrol onto an already tinderbox country. They should never be forgiven.

@SerendipityJane beautifully put- and because they know that it pulls all the bells and whistles in areas they need to win to retain control and the 'we won/you lost' mentality is very much there amongst some. That they appear to have won Jack shit escapes them (apart from the seriously rich- who have of course 'won' big time in asset stripping , huge dividends and off shoring still being allowed

It's a remainers brexit, all would be fine if it was a beleavers brexit.

And if the pesky EU stopped honouring the oven ready deal

The high risk strategy of being single issue is "events, dear boy, events". Because Brexiteers have been led up Putins garden path they are now condemned to look on as their mate "Vlad the lad" (as they call him) now does a reverse ferret and ensure that the UK being out of the EU is amplified by what he's doing. Rinse and repeat.

This is pretty much the mirror image of what the US did to the UK over Suez and Blue Streak. And if Brexiteers actually studied history instead of inventing it, they'd have known this.

@SerendipityJane I always agreed with Geldof when he said it was far better to be inside the tent pissing out ,than outside the tent pissing in.

The thing with the red wall vote is that it's very fickle and is determined a lot by wallets and jobs-- if that goes to shit they will care less about Brexit and anger will turn on the Tory's.

Whereas in the more well to do Tory areas , and particularly business minded Home Counties, they have actually trashed the Tory vote by lies, dogma, bullshit and sleaze and corruption. I think the Lib Dems will trounce them in those areas - as per the bi election and local council showings.

As I said, it's a high risk strategy. Which means it needs brains in spades. And that's the irony. By jettisoning the brains, the Tories are now incapable of wrangling the Brexit they stole from the electorate. However they have to. The moment they stop (as you note) they are dead in the water.

To that end, there is one thing (stopped clocks) that Brexiteers have spot on. But not how they like it. They also need us to keep talking about Brexit. If we [remainers] stopped, they'd lose their magic weapon of arguing with us, and instead have to move on. And at that point it's hard not to see a non-Tory landslide.

Many, many years a very wise person noted that voters seem to be able to somehow work against FPTP when they twig what the picture is. Which is why you don' need a formal pact to oust an MP if things are done right.