to still be angry about Brexit?

[mrsmootoo]

I've mentioned this before and got shot down - 'move on', 'we won, you lost', 'red wall was justified', 'democracy' (although as Brexiter David Davis said, democracies can change their minds) etc etc. Anyway, if anything I am even more angry now than in 2016! Seeing queues at Dover/airports etc (I know not only down to Brexit, but it makes it worse) just reinforced it. I'm not going to rehash all the reasons here, but am just interested in whether other people are still as furious as I am. (And I do know it's not doing my stress levels any good!)

Stop changing the subject.

Ha! You are the one who is ignoring that fact that pretty much every assertion you've made here has been refuted.

Reality exists whether you like it or not.

Yes, and that's what people voted to go into, the EEC, not the EU.

Many who voted into the EEC wanted out of the EU. It's a disgrace that the public were not given the opportunity to vote before

Besides, how many young people actually want to live in Europe?

This is a classic Brexiteer rhetorical question designed to trigger a heads you lose/tails I win response.

If it's "not many" then obviously who gives shit. After all it's not like Brexiteers were hired for their concern for minorities.

If it's "loads and loads" then the answer is obviously that the UK (by which Breixteers only ever mean "England" by the way) is better off without such traitorous youth.

See - win/win.

A lot. Great evidence

Many who voted into the EEC wanted out of the EU. It's a disgrace that the public were not given the opportunity to vote before

EU membership didn't even rank in the top 20 voter concerns prior to Cameron announcing the referendum. Nobody was demanding this in significant numbers. It's become very apparent that many voters had no idea what EU membership even entailed, so were hardly riled up about it. Only the swivel-eyed Bluekip loons were in a state about it until the massive public misinformation campaign began.

It also would have been perfectly possible to leave the EU and remain in the EEA. That at least would have been merely shooting ourselves in the foot rather than the head. A sensible Government after the referendum would have said "clearly the country is very divided on this issue. We will set up a large scale research project across the UK to identify voter concerns and decide the best way forward". That would have been democratic: since people were voting in the referendum in the dark with Brexit undefined and many incompatible promises made that could not possibly simultaneously be kept.

The various options for different arrangements should have been presented to people and - unsurprisingly - when some studies did this, they discovered most people would have compromised on a "soft Brexit" with EEA membership. That would have at least prevented so many lives being ruined and such economic destruction.

But instead our insane Government proceeded with the very most damaging version of Brexit possible so that we lose in every way.

It's pathetic frankly that anybody is still defending it. I think people's brains must have fallen out.

This is Brexit. No facts here please.

It is possibly to live and work in Europe but with extremely defined criteria in many of the most sought after places. Spain for instance, you can live there - but on a system where you can't work for at least a year and need at least 30,000 euro coming in (without working) and you have to have private healthcare .- you have to keep renewing every year proving you can meet the conditions.

Denmark- where we lived for a while . You need sponsorship by a Danish company who have to prove they can't recruit from EU - and an awful lot of jobs require you speaking Danish too- so even in a shortage occupation like health- you might be stuffed when it comes to the language. If you work for yourself you need £22,000 equivalent in the bank, plus more if you have kids- no recourse to public funds and have to keep renewing every year and they keep changing the goalposts.

Sweden- sponsorship required- no obvious option for self employment and if you set a company up- again it's about £30 k in bank and you have to go through a panel to approve you and have constant monitoring- even if you've been doing it for years.

Netherlands- if I remember correctly - similar to above and can't go without a degree either.

The idea anyone can go over to anywhere in EU on a whim and live and work legally (as they could before) is absolute poppycock.

Someone asked me why then are there so many Americans and Canadians doing casual work- that's because the USA has a reciprocal arrangement with many of these countries, as does Canada! We now do not.

I hate Brexit voters a little bit more every time I travel. And every time I can't hire enough staff in my multi lingual, international industry.

A lot..

Dunno what constitutes a lot but FWIW..

"Previously around 25,000 Brits have headed to France every year to do seasonal work and they formed a major part of the workforce in French ski resorts."

www.thelocal.fr/20210708/there-are-so-many-barriers-since-brexit-the-french-ski-businesses-no-longer-willing-to-hire-brits/

One of our headaches in recent years was ensuring our DC continued to enjoy the right to work in the EU.....fortunately due to having grandfather rights of sorts that was successfully resolved.

A lot. Great evidence

Have you not mastered Google?

www.businessleader.co.uk/new-research-shows-1-in-3-young-people-considering-leaving-uk-to-look-for-work/

www.indy100.com/amp/young-people-leaving-britain-after-brexit-7438486-2656351875

www.shoutoutuk.org/2021/10/13/young-brits-would-love-to-leave-but-the-option-of-living-and-working-abroad-has-all-but-disappeared/

www.lse.ac.uk/media-and-communications/assets/documents/research/A-Better-Brexit-for-Young-People.pdf

@MidnightMeltdown and that is why there should have been a second referendum once the likelihood of leaving theEU was on the cards

They should have said - here is the EEA option , here is the bugger all option- which do you want and clearly define the advantages/disadvantages of both

I am confident the EEA option would be a preferred option - I think it's rather pointless to be honest rather than the EU - but certainly from an economic angle it makes far more sense than the current situation- which makes no sense at all.

They never offered it to the public - because by that point the lunatics were running the asylum and had a taste of power and knew full well they wouldn't come out on top

I don't even like the EU but Brexit was always completely asinine and leaves the country a lot worse off.

White Europeans replaced with Asians and Africans. Boris didn't put on the side of a bus for those whose vote was based on controlling or curbing immigration.

Not to mention all the boats full of migrants we can no longer return to France and hundreds pour in every day.

It always amazes me that Brexit supporters STILL try and convince themselves that EU countries want to follow the UK down the self destruction route.

Support for the EU in Europe has never been higher (one benefit of Brexit perhaps..) France has just give a proEurope president a second term. Yes LePenn has increased her vote share but she had to drop her Frexit for that.

In the European country I spend most of my time, NL, Brexit is met with amusement (British eccentricity eh), bewilderment, pity and disappointment. Also they’ve moved on, bigger issues like Ukraine and cost of living crisis are the main news items now.

The point is, that it possible to live and work in Europe before Brexit, and it still is after Brexit. How difficult is that for you to understand.

But it's so much harder now. Which employer is going want the administrative hassle of employing a British person when they can recruit someone from any of the other EU countries without it? Even temporary summer jobs have been made much more difficult to get for UK citizens.

@Festoonlights 'might like to know who was in our country' ? How about compulsory registration in order to access health or rented housing etc- we had that in Denmark - lots of problems in Britain caused by the couldnt be arsed to set proper procedures up brigade! Many of the terrorists were British born and bred too

Yes, but we must "slash red tape"! Who needs procedures and regulations!? But of course we should then be furious about the lack of procedures and regulations... and blame someone else. 🤦🏻‍♀️

I am yet to ever stumble across a Brexit supporter who doesn't tie themselves in knots of self-contradiction. If they hadn't done so much damage it would be highly amusing.

@MidnightMeltdown
Yes, and that's what people voted to go into, the EEC, not the EU.
Many who voted into the EEC wanted out of the EU. It's a disgrace that the public were not given the opportunity to vote before

They did, its called General Elections and it was Thatcher who won 3 or was it 4 of them, who upped the ante and took us into the Single Market.

Then Blair, another EU fan, won a further 3... Cameron then won (almost) a further two, again pro EU...

Ukip on the other hand got zero MPs...

This idea (you are trying to portray) the British were dragged kicking an screaming is nonsense.

Yep. Utter nonsense. There were only a tiny number of EU laws we objected to. Many, we led the initiatives to get them implemented and drafted large parts of them. We used to be well respected and our pragmatic views carried some weight so we usually got what we asked for if there was a problem with any proposals. The people who rant on about the EU Parliament/ Commission generally don't seem to have much idea how it all functions.

Never mind the nonsense that MEPs weren't elected...they were, by us.

Did you ever take the time to actually look at the stats? One year it was memorably 17%

Why?
Because everyone knows they have fuck all real power, and were/are just window dressing.
pointless waste of money and time

That of course begs the question why the man who stirred up all this shitte stayed in such a corrupt and pointless organisation.

Its like Schrodinger's EU - Unelected officials telling us what to do but have no power and are pointless.

He did it to tease.. I thought everyone knew that… obviously not

Did you ever take the time to actually look at the stats? One year it was memorably 17%

Deeply funny point on this thread.