to still be angry about Brexit?

[mrsmootoo]

I've mentioned this before and got shot down - 'move on', 'we won, you lost', 'red wall was justified', 'democracy' (although as Brexiter David Davis said, democracies can change their minds) etc etc. Anyway, if anything I am even more angry now than in 2016! Seeing queues at Dover/airports etc (I know not only down to Brexit, but it makes it worse) just reinforced it. I'm not going to rehash all the reasons here, but am just interested in whether other people are still as furious as I am. (And I do know it's not doing my stress levels any good!)

It's rather painful watching supposedly grown adults point back 50 years and say "that's how it was" as if it is in anyway making up for the current shitshow.

Go back 120 years and women couldn't vote. Maybe that's another retro milestone to aim for ?

Go back 200 years, and slavery was acceptable, if not encouraged. Again, maybe we should go back there ?

Go back 500 years and we were all Catholic ....

Only I am aware all of this is mischievous. Brexiteers assured us - very loudly - they were the future. They got very sniffy when accused of hankering after nostalgic ideals. Very very sniffy.

This is the future they wanted. A future which seems to need 27 other countries to do what we damn well tell them. Just wait until we ban exports of Mr. Bean. That's learn 'em.

Not sure what the rule set was when your parents worked, what they did, hen they did it but:

If the door has been shut in their face then it is down to the pettiness and spite of the EU who want to punish the UK for daring to leave.

Is pure Rees-Moggery:

The rules for nationals of third countries (in terms of border crossing and eligibility to work were in place well before Brexit.

We (UK) voted to move to third country status.

British citizens arriving at EU Borders/ trying to work in the EU now get treated as third country nationals.

In short no rule change, but a change in status for UK citizens iaw long standing rules.

Also worth noting that David Frost admitted that the EU offered the UK a visa-waiver scheme and he turned it down. If we have to abide by third-country rules now, blame him, Johnson and that ludicrous 'over-ready' deal that they now want to tear up.

Also worth noting that David Frost admitted that the EU offered the UK a visa-waiver scheme and he turned it down

I didn’t know that. That’s appalling. It makes you wonder what else they turned down.

@MidnightMeltdown well that's maybe down to their own set of circumstances- maybe they were sponsored by a company --the Beatles were sent back from Germany due to lack of work visas. The rules have tightened yes- and the UK were in the EU and part of the decision making when rules were tightened-you can't just call it petty because now those same rules are coming back to bite.

With regard to other countries and right wing populism- it's the same old story- far fewer younger people and cities support right wing views - it's a lot of older people and more rural areas.

These other countries could have a referendum and vote to leave if they wished- but no other country so far has voted to cut off its nose to spite its face- time will tell.

Consistent opinion polls across Europe since the Brexit vote have shown support for the EU increasing. There is no hint of a majority in any EU country wanting to leave the EU. Why would they organise referendums when it is not one of their citizen's priorities? Especially having seen the fraudulent way it was conducted here to force a vote to Leave when there was no majority for that in the general population before the referendum or afterwards. Or indeed at the time.

As for us being "lucky", you must be living in an alternative reality. Although it's hard to imagine one being possible where Brexit worked out well.

Consistent opinion polls across Europe since the Brexit vote have shown support for the EU increasing. There is no hint of a majority in any EU country wanting to leave the EU. Why would they organise referendums when it is not one of their citizen's priorities? Especially having seen the fraudulent way it was conducted here to force a vote to Leave when there was no majority for that in the general population before the referendum or afterwards. Or indeed at the time.

As for us being "lucky", you must be living in an alternative reality. Although it's hard to imagine one being possible where Brexit worked out well.

Watch Lord Frost admit the EU offered British people a “permanent visa waiver” arrangement but they declined it parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/19ccf673-c02d-45a3-9283-f3eb926bf37c #Brexit #SaveMyFOM

www.musicweek.com/live/read/brexit-minister-lord-frost-visa-free-touring-for-artists-deprives-us-of-control-over-immigration/083611

If the door has been shut in their face then it is down to the pettiness and spite of the EU who want to punish the UK for daring to leave.

You really need to stop peddling this claptrap.

The EU has laws which all member states, including us, agreed to. Those necessarily mean that citizens of non-EU countries are treated differently to EU citizens.

If a country decides to exit the EU then it is obvious that EU law requires that country's citizens to be treated as non-EU citizens, because they have become... non-EU citizens.

How is this so difficult to understand? It was an absolutely known and certain outcome of leaving the EU. It is not a "punishment". It's part of what YOU voted for. Blaming the EU for it makes you look incredibly dim.

If I can say too that if the EU had disbanded and all countries were in the same position - then it might be different and the UK might have a lot to offer investment wise - but as it is we have just given up a lot of our best business and potential opportunities to our neighbouring countries --on a plate and put them at a total advantage!!

Quite.
And this is why it's so difficult not to be so angry about Brexit still. You can be sure there's a lot more stuff like this that will come out bit by bit.

Most of it is buried in documents that are covered by the Official Secrets Act.

If Brexit were a Wagnerian opera (which ironically it is) then we're just getting our seats while the orchestra tunes up. There are 36 hours of pure unadulterated Brexiteer fantasies to play out first.

I'm quite looking forward to the return of the Costa del Crime. What with the UK turbocharging it's international isolationism there probably won't be a better time to get settled before the UKs withdrawal from the ECHR breaks all the extradition treaties. And obviously criminals aren't too worried about income ....

These Tories are very similar to Le Pen. She is much more extreme than the sort of moderate Tory such as Dominic Grieve, but compared to Patel, Dorries, Braverman, there's not much in it at all.

France increased right vote and Italy looks as if it’s following

Imo immigration will become more of an issue over next few decades - where even Aus Labor party concede previous Liberal stance and do not overturn it

Even more galling is that the eU citizens have essentially got a visa waiver kind of thing still in the UK- can use egates etc - I saw all the signs at Heathrow - mainly because they can't cope with bigger queues!! Whereas the EU has got its shit together.

The point is, that it possible to live and work in Europe before Brexit, and it still is after Brexit. How difficult is that for you to understand.

Besides, how many young people actually want to live in Europe? Very, very few. Less than 1%. Its mostly older folk who want to move abroad.

Consistent opinion polls across Europe since the Brexit vote have shown support for the EU increasing. There is no hint of a majority in any EU country wanting to leave the EU. Why would they organise referendums when it is not one of their citizen's priorities? Especially having seen the fraudulent way it was conducted here to force a vote to Leave when there was no majority for that in the general population before the referendum or afterwards. Or indeed at the time.

I was talking about the time of the referendum. When countries were asking for referendums why were they not given one? Stop changing the subject.

That's strange because my parents worked abroad and travelled across the EU before we joined, and had no issues whatsoever. If the door has been shut in their face then it is down to the pettiness and spite of the EU who want to punish the UK for daring to leave

Sigh. The world is completely different now. The EU did not exist, it was the EEC and had six members before the UK, Ireland and Denmark joined. There was a big fence across Europe with millions of people locked behind it.

Now we have a single market for goods, services and people which includes most of Europe and we stupidly took ourselves out of it and completely reduced our kids' life chances.

Yes some people with very specific skills will be able to work in the EU. Most will not.

•Yes they contribute NOW and the studies reflect that - but are they the recipient of eternal youth? No of course not, they will grow old, need replacements and pensions and all the rest. And it won’t look so rosy then. Think more long term fgs

This is also wrong. Most EU immigrants to the UK were more highly educated and qualified than the average UK citizen. They paid more tax, used fewer public services, were far less likely to live in social housing or claim benefits or be high users of healthcare AND then the vast majority moved back to their home countries while still relatively young and in good health. Therefore were net contributors to us, by far.

There are also reciprocal agreements whereby our Government could have claimed back costs of NHS treatment for EU nationals from their home countries under EU law. Guess what? It didn't bother...

Besides, how many young people actually want to live in Europe? Very, very few. Less than 1%. Its mostly older folk who want to move abroad

I don't think that's true. Loads of young adults want to study and work overseas. The studying is just about possible, though much harder. The working is almost impossible.

Anyway, older people can't go either. Who is going to accept retirees with possible health problems and no language skills?

@MidnightMeltdown

The point is, that it possible to live and work in Europe before Brexit, and it still is after Brexit. How difficult is that for you to understand.

Nice job trying to skate over the detail.

The point is that it was possible to live, work or go to Europe and look for work prior to Brexit, it is now much more difficult/complex for a British citizen to do so...

You are right, though, it's really not difficult to understand.

The point is, that it possible to live and work in Europe before Brexit, and it still is after Brexit. How difficult is that for you to understand.

It's possible for some still. For many, it is not. They need to find a job where their prospective employer can prove that there is no potential employee in any of the 27 EU nations that can do that job before they can get a work visa. Good luck with that if you've not got skills on a shortage list.

Besides, how many young people actually want to live in Europe? Very, very few. Less than 1%. Its mostly older folk who want to move abroad.

A lot. Even more since you lot have trashed the UK. Why should people have that opportunity taken away from them because of delusional people who can't even tell us one benefit that stands up to scrutiny that will compensate for losing those opportunities?

Me too, I'm a third country national now in the EU country where I live. 🤬

@Midnightblack

You mean the human rights laws that make it difficult to deport dangerous criminals? They need an overhaul.