Brexit Megathread - Part 1 because it's not over by a long shot

[vera99]

Started a new thread for all things Brexity as the last generic dumping ground reached its 1000 post limit. As this developing shitshow unfolds it's going to be important to share and unload. Clav of course will punt a contrarian view along with unrepentant 'taking back control' so-called Brexiteers. I look forward to seeing the benefits.

Farming Today

George “Useless” Eustice on food prices.

“They’ll go up”

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000zv5t

It would not matter so much if food prices went up if wages kept up, with proper secure work contracts, and non of this gig economy, and if houses could be rented for sensible prices. At the same time those at the bottom of the heap are being shafted, CEOs are enjoying silly salaries, earning far far more than they need to enjoy a good and comfortable life style.

If there were a deficit of available labour surely that would mean virtually nobody unemployed (except through their own choice).

What I see is a lack of appropriately trained labour to fulfil particular roles, that is the labour pool increase needed.

More young and/or unemployed/underemployed people have the opportunity to gain good hopefully highly paid jobs, this is good. Entirely accept that doesn't solve an immediate problem though.

If there were a deficit of available labour surely that would mean virtually nobody unemployed (except through their own choice).

Or physically unable to work because of say disability or caring for disabled relatives. I don't know whether that counts as a 'choice'.

I for one am too old to do a day's crop picking - I could have done in my twenties, I can't at 70.

Then as far as jobs like HGV driving go, the training has to be paid for. If the Government were serious about tackling this issue, they would mandate a compulsory levy from large firms to finance this.

Louisecollins there is virtually no one unemployed, despite what the right wing rags say.

According to the ONS report of 14th September on " Employment in the UK" The number of economically inactive is at a record low"

@vera99

Hah - she out scavenging for petrol, water and food like all good patriotic Brexiteers.

James O'Brien
@mrjamesob 1h
You can argue that the driver shortage is a direct consequence of 'cheap foreign labour' going home or you can argue that the driver shortage is not uniquely bad in Brexit Britain. But you can't really argue both.

Hmm, yes.

Grant Shapps (Transport Sec) put the case this morning that EU migrant workers had pushed HGV driver wages down - and so it was a good thing that a shortage of workers was now pushing wages up. Okay.

Part of his answer to fixing the HGV driver shortage was that there are HGV driver EU nationals who have settled status and need to be encouraged to come back from Poland or wherever and start driving lorries here. Okaaaay.....

So...EU immigration is simultaneously the problem and the solution.

I can't square that circle at all. But Shapps has a posh accent and people voted for him so it must all be ok. (sarcasm).

**
R4 Today prog here. 1hour and 41 minutes in...should anybody care to hear it.
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000zv7x

Daily Mail telling its readers a) we're heading for 'Winter of Discontent 2.0' and that they shoul 'Prepare for the worst'

Just back from a 20-minute queue at our local Shell station. Half the customers were white van man with a lot of them filling up jerry cans as well. They can't afford to be without fuel. Their businesses depend on them being mobile.

I need to fill up today as we are taking DS back to uni, will find out about queues then.

wewereliars 4.6% of adults according to the ONS data, thats almost 1 in every 20 of the working age population.

I read "hell station" at first there Vera seemed appropriate

LouiseCollins28 and would you care to hazard a guess as to what % of that 4.6% are disabled, chronically ill, carers for children or elderly people and so unable to engage in working life? Reality isn't as simple as yo make out.

There is not an available pool of labour to cover the deficits LouIsecollins, that is just a fact.

The mythical wasters living the life of Riley at the taxpayers expense do not exist. But it suits some to pretend they do, rather than look at the absolute mess the Tories have made of this country.

On LBC now a supermarket till operator says the panic buying has begun. Chickens are apparently being bulk bought and the usual suspects, bog roll pasta etc.

facilitating Irish reunification as a means of ending a longstanding vexatious problem

As an experienced politician, Biden will not be blind to the fact that NI is not self sufficient, in receipt of subsidies from the UK government. The UK civil service remains one of the few large employers.

The economy of Ireland, while buoyant, would certainly notice the impact of having to replace such subsidies. Along with the vexatious loyalist contingent, there seems little in it for Ireland.

In polls, the majority of Irish citizens in favour of reunification tends to fall significantly when the question is framed to include the cost to the Irish economy of taking over such subsidies.

There is by no means a clear cut majority in favour of reunification. I have a nostalgic attachment to the idea but then I'm not a tax payer in that jurisdiction so am aware that my opinion counts for very little.

@vera99

On LBC now a supermarket till operator says the panic buying has begun. Chickens are apparently being bulk bought and the usual suspects, bog roll pasta etc.

Yup beginning here as well & the main road is virtually gridlocked as people queuing at the petrol station.

Prettybird thank you for the flower love, having fresh flowers in the house cheers me up no end.

Good thread on Twitter about the fuel driver shortage.

twitter.com/thelorryist/status/1441125906295054342

Why?

Drivers required to move Dangerous Goods by Road (ADR) are subject to additional regulations to comply with the agreement.

This is an additional course and qualification over an above a standard HGV licence....

Takes 5-7 days to complete with a pass/fail examination.

At an additional training cost of £750 - £1000+ depending on classes required.

There is also the question of experience and on job training. You cannot just put anyone behind the wheel of a fuel tanker.

Most drivers never go near the ADR qualification because:

1. It's expensive
2. It's complex
3. There is no guarantee of the job, once qualified
4. The catch 22 applies of needing experience but needing to gain that experience You may have heard the phrase 'dead mans shoes'

However, as with all things HGV driver related...

Brexit has brought it to a pinch point

BUT

the writing was on the wall over 15 years ago, and very little has been done to solve a problem we knew was coming.

Again, we will probably be ok so DO NOT go panic buying. FFS

I particularly enjoyed this statement by Shapps : "Not only are there very large and even larger shortages in other EU countries like Poland and Germany, which clearly can't be to do with Brexit…“. Meanwhile in German news there is no mention of fuel shortages at all and instead a BP representative stated clearly, that the fuel shortage is restricted to GB only. Nice try, Shapps!

Der Bild Germany's Sun nothing about any shortages domestically.

www.bild.de/news/startseite/news/news-16804530.bild.html

They are outright lying with their dissembling excuses, as they always have from the very start.

Hi all. Hope Clav is enjoying a blissful day out.
What I want to know is - how the hell do we get out of this mess? The Cons seem to have the country sewn up like a kipper and the main opposition party is still busy tearing itself apart. And the Lads similar.

I would hope for PR, but that is literally never going to happen, is it.

Where is the decent leadership going to come from? So utterly depressing :(

"LDs, not Lads 🤨

Given the side-splittingly funny linguistic skills demonstrated by the Eton-educated UK PM, he and his chums clearly think they can rest assured that few enough UK citizens will ever read Das Bild or any forrin paper to check the facts.

And they can also rest assured that lying isn't something their voters have a problem with anyway.

#ToryBrexitDisaster is trending on Twitter - let them own it.

@Motherof3Dragons

I particularly enjoyed this statement by Shapps : "Not only are there very large and even larger shortages in other EU countries like Poland and Germany, which clearly can't be to do with Brexit…“. Meanwhile in German news there is no mention of fuel shortages at all and instead a BP representative stated clearly, that the fuel shortage is restricted to GB only. Nice try, Shapps!

Yes!

It's infuriating to hear this stuff trotted out.

Shortages of HGV drivers are Europe wide and have been for years. In this country too.

But shortages on shop shelves/ petrol stations/ glass vials for blood tests....?? That's all just for us in Great Britain.

I'm sure in his head Shapps is not lying because the exact words he used are correct- but driver shortages and goods supply failure are not one and the same thing.

That line is disingenuous. Luckily it is Brexiteer opportunists politicians trotting out that line of defence so there is no danger they are condescending to people by believing them too thick to know the difference between a driver shortage and a goods-on-shelves shortage. As we know, only the metropolitan liberal elite treat the general public with contempt.