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Brexit

Brexit Megathread - Part 1 because it's not over by a long shot

999 replies

vera99 · 22/09/2021 19:41

Started a new thread for all things Brexity as the last generic dumping ground reached its 1000 post limit. As this developing shitshow unfolds it's going to be important to share and unload. Clav of course will punt a contrarian view along with unrepentant 'taking back control' so-called Brexiteers. I look forward to seeing the benefits.

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Peregrina · 30/09/2021 09:41

but I sure as fuck won't vote for any parties that hate female humans and tell lies about biology.

But this is a problem - Johnson, misogynist though he is, as are many in the Tory Party know this, and pick up votes they can't pretend to deserve. I do wonder when this nonsense will end. Men who have gone through puberty are not women by virtue of wearing a dress. But this is a debate for another thread.

vera99 · 30/09/2021 10:05

Good point borntobequiet hadn't thought of it like that but it makes a lot of sense.

As for culture wars that's pretty much all they've got left in their armoury and Labour Lib Dems are deep down that rabbit hole. Was chatting to my normally progressive brother who is now a Douglas Murray / Speccie reader and he got onto taking the knee and all that. When he had finished his rant I said and how exactly does that affect you in your very pleasant north Norfolk village.

Remember when 'Sir' Gavin Willaimson tried to get this as part of a school's day.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Britain_One_Nation

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borntobequiet · 30/09/2021 10:29

It’s instructive to remember that Rosie Duffield didn’t originally go to the Labour Party conference because she didn’t feel safe having been threatened by fellow Labour Party members. And no one in leadership did anything other than say “Oh but she should feel safe.

I mean, seriously. And I would love to be able to vote Labour.

vera99 · 30/09/2021 11:14

This is for real from his blue tick FB account which I have just checked...

Nigel Farage

The government tell us that the fuel crisis is easing…
I went to 7 petrol stations this morning and there was no fuel at any of them.Was then hit by a van whilst stationary at a roundabout. Great start to the day!

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DuncinToffee · 30/09/2021 11:21

I saw that on twitter as well, the replies are brilliant Grin

Peregrina · 30/09/2021 11:37

Was it deliberate?

vera99 · 30/09/2021 11:45

I would be tempted ...

The top comment on his FB feed

"Oh my god what a terrible thing to happen. It’s at times like this that you realise what is most precious in life. Was the van OK?"

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pointythings · 30/09/2021 12:26

@TheElementsSong

I wouldn't vote for a Tory even if you put a gun to my head, but I sure as fuck won't vote for any parties that hate female humans and tell lies about biology.
Well, Tory governments forever then, because the Tories mouth all the right words whilst shafting women (and everyone else) in so many other ways. If you want a different government, you're going to have to hold your nose and deal.
DoctorTwo · 30/09/2021 12:32

I hope somebody told him "you voted for this, we told you this would happen, you thick twat."

HannibalHayeski · 30/09/2021 12:49

Ah, the EU and US are getting together to set global standards on trade and technology.

Good thing the UK is at the table to control this. Oh...

Brexit Megathread - Part 1 because it's not over by a long shot
UltimateFoole · 30/09/2021 12:54

Here's the chief secretary to the treasury (Simon Clarke - who he?) insisting that Brexit and leaving the single market is not a factor in the fuel crisis.

This Clarke chap gives a pained little moue when pressed on whether Brexit is a making this fuel foul up worse. It's like he's saying 'oh, do we really have to talk about this, it's so small and tiresome of you bringing this up'.

That's basically the whole defence now from govt for all problems linked to Brexit; the same expression I do when my child asks for the 10th time why they can't have a banana when we DON'T HAVE ANY!!

It's a very high-handed way to treat thinking, feeling voters who have eyes to see what is happening and every right to have questions answered.

Here he is...

twitter.com/BBCr4today/status/1443485095181094913

DGRossetti · 30/09/2021 13:01

#SoTrue

a clever juxtaposition of Brexiteers fetish for the war and the truth.

Brexit Megathread - Part 1 because it's not over by a long shot
UltimateFoole · 30/09/2021 13:09

[quote DGRossetti]www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/peter-brissenden-kent-winery-hgv-lorry-driver-292971[/quote]
This highlights how shallow the approach is to solving the HGV crisis - it's like Dept Transport doesn't even know what qualifications drivers need.

And when ministers are saying xxx number of people have HGV licences - they don't know that some people have HGV licences purely to drive vehicles other than lorries. I mean I didn't know that - but I'm not in charge of sorting out the lorry-driver shortages...

DuncinToffee · 30/09/2021 13:16

It's all fine, Raab has the solution, just hire low-level offenders to drive the fuel lorries. Or as someone commented, free movement of prisoners.

DuncinToffee · 30/09/2021 13:19

To be fair, he also said he was 'open minded' about allowing asylum seekers to work as part of efforts to solve the labour market shortages.

TheElementsSong · 30/09/2021 13:20

Well, Tory governments forever then, because the Tories mouth all the right words whilst shafting women (and everyone else) in so many other ways. If you want a different government, you're going to have to hold your nose and deal.

🤷🏻‍♀️ As born says, if these people who apparently want to run the country, show such appalling judgement in choosing to foreground these fantastical, pseudo-religious, reality-denying matters, then how am I to conclude that they're a safe set of hands on other issues?

ToryBrexitannians have already demonstrated that they're a bunch of reality-denying, pseudo-religious fantasists who have a dangerous keenness on punishing heretics. Am I supposed to actively enable a different lot of the same?

DGRossetti · 30/09/2021 13:23

This highlights how shallow the approach is to solving the HGV crisis - it's like Dept Transport doesn't even know what qualifications drivers need.

What do you mean "like". They don't at all.

I long ago learned to be very careful about "official advice".

HannibalHayeski · 30/09/2021 13:26

Not at all worrying;

Walker
@TonySWalker
Dutch paper this morning big article on EU coalition formed to implement UK sanctions due to Irish border agreement non compliance. Also France may limit energy flow to UK due to non compliance with agreed fishing boat access. Nothing on BBC News #Brexit

UltimateFoole · 30/09/2021 13:38

@DuncinToffee

To be fair, he also said he was 'open minded' about allowing asylum seekers to work as part of efforts to solve the labour market shortages.
That would be great - every cloud has a silver lining as they say.
HannibalHayeski · 30/09/2021 13:44

Brilliant from the Eye;

Brexit Megathread - Part 1 because it's not over by a long shot
vera99 · 30/09/2021 13:51

@HannibalHayeski love a reply to that tweet

"We can burn fish to produce power and when we run out of fish we can burn the fishing boats."

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DuncinToffee · 30/09/2021 14:01

@HannibalHayeski

Not at all worrying;

Walker
@TonySWalker
Dutch paper this morning big article on EU coalition formed to implement UK sanctions due to Irish border agreement non compliance. Also France may limit energy flow to UK due to non compliance with agreed fishing boat access. Nothing on BBC News #Brexit

Do you know which paper?
vera99 · 30/09/2021 14:03

www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/nu-londen-brexitafspraken-blijft-negeren-bereidt-brussel-zich-voor-op-het-ultieme-ultimatum~b91f92f3/

As London continues to ignore Brexit deals, Brussels is preparing for the ultimate ultimatum

The umpteenth Brexit ultimatum expires on Thursday. The British refuse to properly carry out the agreed controls on the British flow of goods to Northern Ireland. Behind the scenes, the European Commission is preparing member states for tough sanctions to bring London into line.

Marc PeeperkornSeptember 29, 2021 , 15:10
The British flag can be removed on Thursday. Once again, London casually ignores an ultimatum from Brussels to honor the Brexit agreements. And again the EU is doing nothing. The European Commission is not blowing a ripple in the Channel.

British politicians will chuckle. The threatening ' pacta sunt servanda ' (a deal is a deal), which Commissioner Maros Sefcovic heard in June, has been silenced. 'Taking a breather' is what it is now called in Brussels. "Calm down the mood." At the same time, behind the scenes, the Commission is preparing the minds of the Member States to hit back hard at the end of this year: with import duties, banning British companies from the European market and excluding European research programs that the British love. "It is not our first choice, but the ultimate," said a concerned official.

First back to today: the day when the three-month grace period that the British asked in June is coming to an end. In those months, discussions were held about ways in which the now infamous Irish/Northern Irish protocol could be implemented. That protocol (45 pages) is part of the much broader Brexit agreement (177 pages) on the departure of the United Kingdom (including Northern Ireland) from the EU, but has developed into the inflamed appendix of that paper mass. Not incomprehensible, by the way, nor unexpected.

The British departure makes the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland (which is a member of the EU) an external European border that must be guarded. Border controls could endanger peace in Northern Ireland (enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement). That risk was known to the Brexiteers, but at the time they preferred not to talk about it. That would undermine the success of their campaign.

After the Brexit referendum, London still had to face reality. Everything was arranged for people, they can cross the border unhindered, but not for goods. After three years of negotiations, the protocol was ready, in fact the quadrature of uniting the circle around Northern Ireland peace (no controls on goods) with protection of the European market (controls, no 'gap' in the external border). In practical terms, this means that Northern Ireland partly adheres to EU rules, so that checks at the border with Ireland are unnecessary. The checks on the flow of goods from British products to Northern Ireland (for quality, safety, final destination) are carried out by the British in Great Britain or in Northern Irish ports.

Every word in the protocol has been weighted, every comma discussed. The Commission, the European Parliament, the British government (Prime Minister Boris Johnson) as well as the British Parliament signed it. Then the whining started.

sausage war
Nine months later, checks are still not being carried out or are insufficiently carried out, the EU still does not have the promised supervision of British customs officers, London unilaterally extends the transition periods (where everything stays as it is) and this summer British and French warboats floated in. The Channel to protect their fishermen.

There is the problem of fresh meat exports from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. The EU imposes strict requirements on all non-EU countries (including the United Kingdom) on the import of animal products for the sake of food safety and the prevention of animal diseases. London reared: for example, the Northern Irish were robbed of their fresh sausages, so there were no checks. British tabloids sniffed at the Great Sausage War.

There has been a lot of fuss over parcel checks to Northern Ireland, drug exports, pet quarantine rules and the amount of extra paperwork now that trade is no longer as smooth as it was before Brexit.

In July London released its famous Command Paper , the name speaks volumes. In it, the British government demands renegotiation of the protocol and otherwise threatens to unilaterally blow it up. According to Johnson and his Brexit negotiator David Frost, the protocol is a monstrosity that they only signed at the time to secure Brexit. Frost describes his EU colleague Sefcovic and his team as a bunch of rule fetishists. Practically, London wants much lighter or no controls and a trade flow with Northern Ireland as it was before their departure from the EU. Moreover, EU institutions such as the European Court are no longer allowed to interfere in anything.

On the EU side, the British demand rhetoric is met with a mixture of disbelief and pity. Doesn't Brexit mean Brexit, officials say, referring to the slogan with which former British Prime Minister Theresa May defended separation from the EU? Take back control (that other slogan of the Brexiteers) also implies: take back controls ? And doesn't the 'sovereignty' heralded by the Brexiteers include 'responsibility'?

The fact that Brussels is nevertheless refraining from legal action or trade clashes today has to do with the fact that Brexit is a thing of the past for the Member States. Except for Sefcovic, nobody cares about it anymore. In the Brussels Speech from the Throne of Commission President von der Leyen this month, the word Brexit no longer even appeared.

Not unimportant: despite the fact that the British do not comply with the agreements, there are as yet no indications that British products end up illegally on the Irish and European market via Northern Ireland. Brussels is going too far to start a trade war over some sausages and pets.

floppy knees
The Commission wants a 'permanent solution' to the disputes, not short-term arm wrestling. So in mid-October she will come up with new proposals to solve the problems with checks, forms and labeling without changing the protocol. The only UK demand that the Commission will never agree to is to remove the European Court's role as final arbiter on the correct application of EU laws. That is not only impossible under treaty law, but also politically impossible: it would prove Poland right in their attempt to inflate the primacy of EU law.

The Commission knows that it is counterproductive to announce a new ultimatum with a drum roll. London will sit back until the new date is in sight and then - hoping for limp knees at the EU - try to wrestle new concessions. So far that works. Exactly what the Member States did not want – the continual extension of transition periods – is now happening.

Partly for this reason, the Commission has started to privately inform the Member States about harsh sanctions if London still ignores the protocol at the end of this year. This does not only concern the usual lawsuits, but direct trade restrictions (import duties) as well as the denial of British requests to participate in research programs (funded by EU funds). Also on the sanctions list: restricting the freedom of British financial services providers to operate in the lucrative European market.

But does the Union have the political courage to push things to a head at the turn of the year? In any case, the Member States will then know what is at stake and what weapons they have at their disposal. "There can be no more surprises," said an EU official.

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DuncinToffee · 30/09/2021 14:11

Thanks, I was too lazy to google.