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Brexit
Original poster

Westminstenders: Tachographs and Empty Shelves

999 replies

pointythings · 11/07/2021 17:58

So Grant Shapps' solution to the shortage of lorry drivers is to allow them to drive longer hours.

Leading to more accidents and deaths on the UK's roads. But Brexit is Job Done and all is well - isn't it?

OP posts:
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DGRossetti · 17/08/2021 12:45

@Peregrina

The guy on R4 last week (Ben Wallace I think) was unequivocal. But also realistic. Without US support, there is no "International effort".

It's basically true. Cast your mind back to the late 90s, when the USSR had collapsed and the USA, as ever, spoiling for a fight, was running round in search of an enemy. Bingo, this appalling atrocity, which we will assume they did not for see, came along. Although it was perpetrated by Saudis, they were a renegade bunch with Bin Laden holed up on the Afghan/Pakistan border. What a gift - a nice quick war and home in time for Christmas. The UK, still trying to prove it had an Empire and/or Special Relationship of course went running in behind them.

Perhaps I am just too cynical.

That underscores how history works. 9/11 was planned by Saudis in Saudi Arabia so the very first thing the US did was invade Afghanistan and Iraq. 20 years on, no one questions it.

See also WW1, Vietnam ...

borntobequiet · 17/08/2021 17:43

That underscores how history works. 9/11 was planned by Saudis in Saudi Arabia so the very first thing the US did was invade Afghanistan and Iraq. 20 years on, no one questions it.

This ^^

LouiseCollins28 · 17/08/2021 18:05

Got to ask then Peregrina Did you honestly not expect there would be a military response from America after 9/11?

Peregrina · 17/08/2021 18:15

Did you honestly not expect there would be a military response from America after 9/11?

Certainly some response would have been required - but how about routing out terrorist cells which were already in the US rather than invading another country, far away, of which they really did know very little. With catastrophic results.

The USA didn't mind the Taliban too much when they were in power - apart from hand wringing about women's rights, which really wasn't what they went in for.

Peregrina · 17/08/2021 18:16

Posted too soon - where is the hand wringing about women's rights in Saudi Arabia or parts of Africa? The silence is deafening.

prettybird · 17/08/2021 18:31

@LouiseCollins28

Got to ask then Peregrina Did you honestly not expect there would be a military response from America after 9/11?
What about Saudi Arabia then? Given that bin Laden was Saudi Arabian, 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi and the 9/11 Commission report acknowledges that "Saudi Arabia has long been considered the primary source of al-Qaeda funding" Hmm
LouiseCollins28 · 17/08/2021 19:04

On Saudi Arabia, here's one answer

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Sultan_Air_Base

For a second one, who's military kit do they buy? Compare and contrast Saudi to Afghanistan who back at the end of the 80s having sent the Russian bear home with a sore head, then made hay with their equipment for years. Until the US and allies invaded in 2001 of course, rinse and repeat.

That said, Afghanistan was a "regional ally" once too, until they stopped doing what the West wanted.

DGRossetti · 17/08/2021 20:51

There is a direct line from the US funded (anti communist) Mujahadeen of the 1980s to the Taliban of the 2000s.

Once again, the US phobia of communism has proved far worse than communism itself.

Jason118 · 17/08/2021 22:31

This is Brexit

news.sky.com/story/nandos-forced-to-close-50-restaurants-due-to-supply-chain-disruptions-12384047

The company confirmed that its sites in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, which have a unique customs arrangement due to Brexit, had not been affected.

HarrietPierce · 18/08/2021 22:13

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1428063461897080838.html

Chris Grey :

A thread about Brexit and Afghanistan.

DGRossetti · 19/08/2021 07:45

And UK students facing visa issues with Spain

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-58247963

Don't they know who we are ?

Peregrina · 19/08/2021 08:32

I forget just how many Brexiters blithely assured us that it would still be easy to study abroad.

prettybird · 19/08/2021 08:50

Hell mend them. They shouldn't be studying a useless European language Hmm. They might get infected with Europhilitis Shock. They should be studying Korean or Japanese or some other distant language and applying for the Turing scheme which doesn't cover all costs let alone travel costs Confused

Sarcasm alert Wink

Peregrina · 19/08/2021 10:32

Yesterday's Parliamentary debates were interesting, with the tone being "The Americans have let us down. We should work more with our European allies."

Original poster
pointythings · 19/08/2021 11:23

DD2's degree involves a year abroad, with Portugal being one of the options. That burgundy passport is going to come in mighty handy.

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 19/08/2021 11:58

Maybe it was just me, but part of the undercurrent of Brexit was a distinct sense that the elite felt that freedom of movement was too good for the average pleb.

Original poster
pointythings · 19/08/2021 12:47

It's both, isn't it?

The elite: Those plebs are getting too up themselves thinking they can just work and study abroad instead of staying patriotically at home. Let's put a stop to that.

The plebs: Let's really sock it to the elites by voting so that their little darlings can't go and work and study abroad any more.

Add it together and voila, Brexit.

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 19/08/2021 13:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

dontcallmelen · 19/08/2021 19:20

.

AuldAlliance · 19/08/2021 20:28

Just popping in with this:
Not enough turkeys for Christmas due to Brexit, poultry producers warn
www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/19/chicken-producers-brexit-staff-supply-shortages-uk-immigration-jobs-eu

Must be a metaphor in there somewhere.

Peregrina · 19/08/2021 20:52

But I thought that there were 17.5 million turkeys available. Isn't that enough for us all?

Eve · 19/08/2021 21:59

Non essential blood tests being cancelled due to shortages

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/allergy/gps-fear-financial-losses-and-patient-abuse-due-to-blood-test-shortage/

mathanxiety · 20/08/2021 04:59

Agreeing a hundred percent with DGR's comment on the US fear of communism and its disastrous effects (which include single payer health insurance, aka 'socialised medicine').

The US decision to pull out of Afghanistan underlines the fact that the UK is very much the junior partner in any alleged transAtlantic partnership. America snapped its fingers and the UK followed it in initially, and now has to hastily cobble together an exit, once again in the position of taking orders.

mathanxiety · 20/08/2021 05:09

@Peregrina, fear and hatred of Russia replaced fear and hatred of the USSR once that entity collapsed

The Cold War is still ongoing in the US. From silly tv dramas to silly statements about socialized medicine flung about by right wing idiots seeking to make a name for themselves, to the ignoring of the likes of Robert and Rebekah Mercer in favour of theories of Kremlin puppet masters during the 2016 election, the common theme of the Russian bogeyman continues to haunt the US.

Now that that the Taliban have taken over again, it has finally been whispered on American broadcast tv and on NPR that women and girls managed to wear western clothing and go to school during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. The admission that American funding of the Mujahideen put an end to all of that has yet to be made. That sort of soul searching is still a step too far.