Westminstenders: Tachographs and Empty Shelves

[pointythings]

So Grant Shapps' solution to the shortage of lorry drivers is to allow them to drive longer hours.

Leading to more accidents and deaths on the UK's roads. But Brexit is Job Done and all is well - isn't it?

jasjas1973 Mon 12-Jul-21 08:42:21
"Many former terrorists go on to help heal divided nations, Adams McGuiness, even Mandela."

From the other thread This is so true and needs to be taken into account.

Gareth Southgate reminds me of the best managers I had the pleasure of working for over my career (sadly, the exceptions rather than the rule): taking 100% of the responsibility of things don't go well and transferring 100% of the praise on to those that they manage if things go well.

Soooo unlike BJ and his cronies

As a Scot I have mixed views : on the one hand grateful that we won't have to go through weeks years of the media going on about it "coming home" (although maybe we'd finally stop having to listen to memories of 1966 ); on the other hand, I do admire Southgate and his young team who seem to be good examples of true sportsmen.

Also, I'm glad that BJ won't be able to try unjustifiably to bask in the reflected glory.

Dh and I will be going out this week for lunch at our favourite restaurant - which happens to be an Italian (Scottish-Italian family run)

@foxandcubs

On the last thread I think it was wewereliars who said we were not net contributors. We can and will disagree on whether it was worth our money but at least we can all now agree that we were net contributors. We were paying for an anthem, a flag, fancy buildings, large expense budgets, private school fees for the kids, 1st class travel, diplomats. The EU is not a country so why should it have diplomats that we were paying towards. God knows. And moving from one city to another every couple of weeks. Why?

The UK has an Ambassador to the UN (not a country) & perhaps even more of a talking shop, given the vetos.

Yes the moving of the Parliament is a huge waste of money.

Aren't we now going to be paying more in customs and non tariff charges than we ever were in EU membership?

Doubtless, should we join the Pacific trade group, we will pay toward the school fees of diplomats sent to that region too.

Given our 2 trillion economy, a £9billion membership fee to have free and unfettered access to the worlds wealthiest trading bloc might be argued as a bargain?

Yes it has issues, not least allowing too many unsuitable countries to join the Euro but it helps give Europe a stability it hasn't had for centuries.

Believe it or not @foxandcubs i was going to vote leave, i didn't at the last minute because the Brexit side had no firm plans, it was all pie in the sky, wishful thinking, belief/feelings and i had a growing feeling leave was about political power for a few people.

It was basically an experiment but with no way back if it went wrong, thats no way to run a country.

Doubtless, should we join the Pacific trade group, we will pay toward the school fees of diplomats sent to that region too.

Don't we pay the school fees of all diplomats sent abroad - and have absolutely no say in how those countries are run. But that's OK because they don't have the dreaded word Europe in their titles.

Exactly @Peregrina!

Very sad state of affairs, did you hear an Italian fan telling R4 this morning that England isn't even in Europe now?

Lost so much influence and goodwill and for what?

Of course England is still in Europe, unless they've moved Europe overnight. It's nothing to do with the title of the EU or NATO or the UN it's about a total waste of UK's money. I don't care what the % of gdp it is. It was too much. The UN is not trying for ever closer political union. Sovereignty and the rules for immigration are important for any country and we had given them up to the EU. We've left. Job done.

We probably do pay towards the school fees of our diplomats sent abroad but in the EU we were paying towards everybody else's as well. I think the EU paid Johnson's fees when he was at school.

"We've left. Job done."

Ridiculous soundbite in relation to a very complex matter, that was put forward as "the easiest deal in history".

It would seem that "job done" is the new "try to shut the discussion down" expression.

Except that it will never be done - not for the UK who will have to continually re-negotiate access and tariffs if/when it changes its standards (as it has said it wants to do and unsurprisingly it's unlikely to be upwards, as the proposed relaxation of HGV driver rules illustrates ) and certainly not for exporters who will have increasing amounts of paperwork to complete in order to export into the EU, currently the largest trading bloc in the world if they're allowed to export at all to it, which is not a given if our standards change

The irony is, in many most cases, those exporters will have to meet and prove they meet the EU standards - that the UK no longer has any influence over

PMK thanks as ever pointythings & contributors

Hello Lord Tebbit, nice of you to drop in.

Not being English/British born, I'm not getting the reference. Still, I'll go out on a limb and say that I'm guessing that wasn't meant as a wholly complimentary comparison.

Apologies if I offended you with my question. Was definitely not intended to doubt your Englishness.

We can and will disagree on whether it was worth our money
it's about a total waste of UK's money. I don't care what the % of gdp it is. It was too much.

The paper mathanxiety linked was waffly but it did establish that the UK had negotiated the lowest club membership fee in the EU - 0.65% of GDP - and it would have been lower because the monies paid direct to non-government organisations were not included.

It's obviously hyperbole to claim a total waste of money because we received benefits that were not available otherwise.

However what would you consider a reasonable fee:-

For open access to a market representing one third of global GDP.

To have a leading role and veto in setting what are effectively global standards by which we will have to abide, whether in or out of the EU.

For leading membership of multiple organisations (EASA, EURATOM, EMA etc.) which we now have to establish/expand our own equivalents, necessarily subservient to the EU ones.

Personally I think a sum less than our aid budget was a bargain,especially in the context of HMG redirecting this for 'influence'

Sovereignty in terms of trade deals is obviously something most leavers do not understand, otherwise they would not be claiming to have recovered it.

I'm sorry everyone, I really can't help but visualise the empty slogan shouter as being like the TV series of Moll Flanders, in which her half-brother/incestuous husband shouted "Praise the Lord!" as he, um, 🍆💦

💦 "Job done!" 💦

Frankie - you are wasting your breath with Leavers. It's blind faith with them.

Looking at how Ireland, a sovereign nation (even though it's a member of the EU ) has gone from strength to strength since a) it re gained its independence, escaping the clutches of the UK and b) joined the EU so that it no longer relies on the UK as an export market despite what Priti Patel thinks makes me hopeful for the future of Scotland

FrankieStein402,
Everybody does not have to abide by the rules set by the EU regardless of whether we are in or out. To answer your question in relation to the EU, £0 because it was more than a trade deal. It was ever closer union and they even wanted an army ffs and it was flags, and an anthem. We do send an ambassador to the UN which is fine but they don't send one to us.

Anybody who wants to trade with the EU has to make sure their products comply with EU standards - in other words, abide by their rules.

The flag is the same flag as the Council of Europe, which BTW we are still a member of.

The "anthem" predates the EU by a long way and is also the anthem for the Council of Europe. It was adopted as the words, written in 1785, (and put to music by Beethoven in 1824) were deemed to be appropriate, first by the Council of Europe (in 1972) and then by the EU heads of state (which, BTW, included the UK) in 1985.

Or are you going to complain about the "anthem" for the rugby World Cup and other such "anthems"

The EU "army" is a Brexiter myth put the about by mischief makers. There is a very small peace keeping force that the various sovereign countries contribute to, but because defence is still the sovereign countries' responsibility and because the sovereign members have a veto over the creation of an army, it was never going to happen .....although maybe with an aggressive island just off its north west coast, who can no longer add its veto to the process, it might change its view about the requirement (seriously though: it's never going to happen, as all the sovereign countries have different attitudes as to what/how an army does/functions/trains, and anyway, as most EU members plus a few neighbouring countries are members of NATO, they are under a treaty obligation to treat an attack on one as an attack on all).

And as borntobequiet points out (reiterating what I'd posted earlier), if anyone wants to export to the EU, they have to abide by the EU rules. Only now we don't have a say in them.

BTW: the EFTA countries might not on paper have a say, as they're not members of the EU but are in the Single Market, so need to abide by them, but because of that, they spend a lot on maintaining a significant lobbying group with the EU.

So many uninformed and fallacious myths. It's almost fun to repudiate them again and again

Going on about flags is a bit of a joke where this Government is concerned!

Johnson v Southgate.

www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/en/esdp/91624.pdf

Details of the EU battle groups

Gareth Southgate apologised, I haven't heard that?

Immediately after the game, Southgate said the result is his responsibility. Iirc, he said, "It's on me, it's my responsibility" the sort of words that you've never heard from BJ

He explicitly said that the penalty takers were on him, based on performance at training.

I've not watched today's press conference, but from my impression of the guy, it would've e been more of the same.

Even though I'm a Scot, he very nearly got me to support the team!

@foxandcubs

Of course England is still in Europe, unless they've moved Europe overnight. It's nothing to do with the title of the EU or NATO or the UN it's about a total waste of UK's money. I don't care what the % of gdp it is. It was too much. The UN is not trying for ever closer political union. Sovereignty and the rules for immigration are important for any country and we had given them up to the EU. We've left. Job done.

Job done? are you some sort human parrot?

Did you actually read that paper Louise ?