Is it time to move on positively after Brexit?

[TheReluctantPhoenix]

The following article appeared in the Times today (hopefully the share token has worked properly)::

The pain of Brexit isn’t as bad as I’d feared

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-pain-of-brexit-isnt-as-bad-as-id-feared-9n58bgcs5

This is written by the Britain editor of the Economist, one of the most ardent pro EU journals.

In it, inter alia, Emma Duncan admits that a mere 7,600 financial service jobs have moved from London to another European capital because of Brexit and that the BOE is now forecasting a post COVID bounce back of 7.25% to our GDP.

Of course, the article has many caveats about what might yet happen, but also some explanation as to why the U.K. might be far more resilient than she (and most ardent remainers) feared.

Pointythings - Is it less fresh though? I try and buy British and local to the area where I live. I also buy seasonal whenever possible, so for me personally I haven't noticed any difference in freshness.

Trying to buy British and local is great. I do it too. But not everyone has a choice of where to shop to make that happen. Our local Sainsburys for example is terrible - even their UK grown stuff is always close to sell by. Now I have the option of going elsewhere - but in my small town, that shop is pretty much the only choice, other than expensive corner stores. And my town has several areas of serious socio-economic deprivation, where people just scrape by on what they have - or do not manage to do so. It's easy to look at post Brexit options from a position of relative privilege, but it's worth thinking about the lives of people who aren't as fortunate. Is Brexit making things better for them, in the way that was promised?

Until that starts happening, there's nothing to be positive about.

Tinned foods are fresh at the canning stage, but the process itself changes them. I for one can't eat fresh pineapple but can eat tinned ones - so something has changed.

Basically we're having to cope with brexit. Anything that needs coping with probably wasn't such a great idea to begin with.
This. I'm in the EU and so many of the UK businesses I normally buy from are now saying that they can't send to me or that they don't know what taxes I will have to pay on delivery. That can't be good for them.

No, I will never move on. I am angry, embarrassed and ashamed that we did this to ourselves.

This. 100%

Ultimately this post is just another one of those' if you don't cheerlead for Brexit because you lost, you aren't a true patriot' posts. Which is complete and utter bullshit. Leave voters dragged all of us into the shit. We are under no obligation to let them off the hook.

Moving on is ... about accepting we are where we are and looking forwards and working towards the best possible future.

Totally agree with OP on the value of this.

Does OP have any idea how to convince the DUP and English fishing communities that they must do that? They are struggling badly to accept exactly what they voted for.

The best possible future is joining EFTA or the EEA. Only a true BeLeaver would think otherwise. Anything else is second best

@TheReluctantPhoenix

I ve a friend who is CEO of a firm exporting (from uk) across EU, employs 250.

What he is finding is that EU customers are finding it v hard to be able to buy his products due to VAT rules, customs clearances, delays.

Slowly, they are moving from his company to RoW or other EU firms, he is trying to set up warehousing in EU so he can export to them and then its all SM for his customers.

Or the firm goes bust, Brexit has cost them millions.

Pre January he was confident he had everything in place but its the non tariff barriers and esp rules on VAT that have stumped him and his customers.

Many EU firms have stopped selling to UK customers too.

By all means make it work and look forward, so as you voted for this, tell us the advantages? not that its "not that bad"

You can't be positive about something damaging like Brexit.

I can accept it but it made my nation weaker and my own life smaller so I'm not positive.

We live in mainland Europe. My husband used to import goods from the U.K., however it’s just not possible now so he has sourced some from ROI and others from other European countries. The U.K. suppliers have lost out on a regular and reliable source of income. Well done chaps

Unless we join the customs union and find a deal on financial services, brexit will slowly choke this country.

I will never forgive Brexit, nor the general shift in attitudes from a free democratic country with a public sector, services and ethos, to a third world money grabbing dump. It is not even survival of the fittest, it's survival of those who grabbed the most out of the sell-out 30-40 years ago. As for "the economy" I worry about how the livelihoods of us all are affected, not how well "the economy" appears to be doing by forcing the poorer classes into a rentier economy while the richer cream off more and more of the resources.

For "the economy" read "the system". Try to understand, now and forever, that the health and interests of "the system" can be directly opposed to the health and interests of the vast majority of people who make it up. As long as there is one rich person who outearns all the others combined, "the system" can be shown to be healthy. It makes no difference to everyone else. I realise that most British people now do not have the tools to grasp this simple fact, as they have been systematically removed.

Actually, I think the kicking that's coming our way will ultimately do us good.

The Brits really, really need to understand their position as a chilly, damp island in the North Atlantic, one that for an extraordinarily long time was permitted to punch above its weight, to sit at Top Tables it had long since lost its legitimacy to sit at.

Thus it is that remarkably ill educated people (and oddly proud of it...) really thought they could go it alone, oh-so-easily swayed by cheap slogans and manipulated by tabloids, ably engineered by those for whom Brexit merely removed the risk of tax scrutiny.

OK, the damage will be painful, it will take decades for an awakening to happen. We'll find ourselves pulling up cabbages in Germany (Auf Weidersehn!). But frankly, that's all many of us are currently good for. And all many of us actually aspire to, though we don't know it yet.

The one thing Brexit revealed to me was how stunning badly educated so many Brits are. Critical thinking skills of Tarmac.

We need this reckoning in order to rebuild our country into a modern, Western democracy where rights are balanced by responsibilities. Where we value skills and ambition, not mock them. Where a medieval awe of higher social class no longer cows us.

When we grow up.

@LindainLockdown

How patronising to suggest you can only be positive if you are not directly affected. My son is studying languages at uni and of course will be hugely impacted by the ramifications of the demise of the Erasmus scheme for his year abroad.

So yes the loss of that is upsetting but it will be replaced by an alternative scheme, and he will still have the opportunity to work and study abroad, it may not be as good as it would have been under Erasmus but that's just the way it is and he is resilient and will just get on with it.

This sort of attitude really smacks of the approach of the current Labour leadership, ie we know better than the majority of the British population, it's just the stupid general public don't understand the issues.

Your son can be as resilient as he likes but he won't get hired by a EU country if a EU National can do the job equally well.

Miljea, how can we aspire to something we don't yet know about?

Honestly?

I don't agree with Brexit. I do think that its yesterday's battle though at this point.

Brexit and Covid have forced change. Some was much needed. Others will kill our economy and freedom in various ways.

I am at the point where I need to move on from it. I find a lot of the most hardline anti-brexit views unhelpful at this point. Unfortunately we have to be constructive at this stage and make the best of a bad hand of cards to avoid losses where we can. I have become somewhat frustrated at the whole situation.

We previously were in a situation where it was possible to influence / express concern. Then it was immediate concerns for a sudden impact that were pressing. At this point the pace of change has changed - its still happening and is significant but the world has also shifted on its axis significantly in the last year too. Change has to happen. We aren't going back to the mentality of 2016. We aren't even going back to the mentality of Jan/Feb 2020.

We have gone past that and are firmly in a new era of politics.

On that note, ive decided not to continue with Brexit posting on a regular basis. Its been 5 years since the referendum now. I don't feel I have much which is meaningful to post about it now. I still have opinions and concerns over the ongoing forever process so i hope those who do wish to continue posting about it do so (and the Brexit Threads continue - particularly Westminstenders). But I, personally, have reached the point where i need to live life again and focus on what we can do rather than lament the things about Brexit which I despise.

Today's boundary review is the nail in the coffin for my political voice in many ways. I have spent 5 and a half years doing what i can. I need to focus on new things.

I have loved the company and comments of everyone (including those with opposing views) over the years. But time for new things.

(Not leaving MN though).

The best comment I saw about 'We should embrace Brexit' was: Brexit is full of shit. Why should I get my hands covered in shit? Apologies for a lack of attribution to whoever I stole that from.

@Peregrina

The best comment I saw about 'We should embrace Brexit' was: Brexit is full of shit. Why should I get my hands covered in shit? Apologies for a lack of attribution to whoever I stole that from.

Moving on, does not mean embracing it. It means being pragmatic that we are stuck in the shit and maybe have to look to ways to getting into shallower rather than deeper shit.

shrugs

But then I've been more of that mindset than many for a while now.

@yellowspanner

Miljea, how can we aspire to something we don't yet know about?

We can surely 'aspire' to deliver 'better'. All I'm seeing is 'it's not as bad as we feared'....

Is that all Brexit is worth?

RedToothBrush

I cannot tell you how massively useful and informative your posts have been over the past 4+ years. I needed help making sense of the chaos all around, and you made sense out of it, along with intelligent analysis. Following, I am sure, hours of your time.

Thank you.

I deeply appreciate you taking the time, and making the effort to do this.

I think you are right to step away, now. There is nothing to be gained other than a deepening trough of disbelieving depression.

I don't really recognise myself when I say that right now, my focus is on how to advantage my own, my family. Given that 'we' were outnumbered by those who didn't care about us.

We are lucky in that we all hold Antipodean passports. We never thought we'd need them, but, they're there.

I have gained a new understanding about what being British means, given the Brexit vote and Tory resurgence.

To my surprise, I have been forced to recognise that, actually, we are not 'post-Renaissance man' (as it were) - didn't Blair's Britain give us that hope??- which is where I thought we were heading, given my lower middle-class upbringing, a belief is constructive 'better', I guess.

We are in fact entering a stage of social recession, of isolationism, of 'fortress mentality'. Many are not only proud, but strongly encouraged to embrace and celebrate their anti-intellectualism, their ignorance.

'Ere we go.

As I have said unthread, a part of me feels we actually need to experience the end result of this path, in order to 'reawaken' at some point in the future.

I'm very glad you're staying on MN, tho.

Christ knows, we need some intelligence!

Don't think that i no longer care or am bothered. Its more that i have devoted so much to this, that i dont think i can continue at that level. For my own sanity if nothing else.

I get you, @RedToothBrush, I really do. Thank you for everything - for the analysis, the conversations and the company during those late night divisions. We lived through history. Order!

I agree the Remain battle was lost. In the long run it may be as well, because otherwise we would never have heard the last of how the Remainers were thwarting Democracy. Well they have had their democratic vote implemented now, but they still don't like what de Pfeffle has implemented in their name. They are still whining about the EU and I expect that this needs to run its course. We were the 'Sick man of Europe' back in the 1960s and I expect that we will regain that title.

Meanwhile one time Remainers need to find a better vision for the future - it won't come from the Leavers. I made a comment on one of these threads maybe a couple of years ago now, that I studied A level history, and noted that issues which tore one generation apart ceased to matter for the next generation. This might well prove to be the case here.