Westministenders: This is not the Brexit we voted for

[ListeningQuietly]

UK Shellfish industry destroyed because our inshore waters are not clean enough
Welsh Ports on their knees because the Land Bridge has found another route
Horticulture seed producers lost all of their mainland EU customers

Antique dealers lost access to their suppliers
Small businesses being told (by UK Govt) to relocate to the EU to avoid red tape
Brits in the EU discovering that stopping Free Movement applies to them too
Northern Ireland in Unionist flames because there is a border between them and Great Britain, but not the Republic
And the UK has still not taken control of its borders

Brexit is shaping up as predicted, but none of those who voted for it seem to have what they wanted

I found this story regarding the situation in NI quite distressing, a car bomb was placed under a police officer's car, directly under where her 3 year old daughter's car seat was. It's awful to think we are going back to this again.

Bomb found in Derry was attempt to kill officer and daughter, say police
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/20/viable-explosive-device-vehicle-psni-member-derry-northern-ireland

No worries - I got my initial info from Twitter and then it sometimes take a while for the papers to catch up.

[quote HappyWinter]I found this story regarding the situation in NI quite distressing, a car bomb was placed under a police officer's car, directly under where her 3 year old daughter's car seat was. It's awful to think we are going back to this again.

Bomb found in Derry was attempt to kill officer and daughter, say police
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/20/viable-explosive-device-vehicle-psni-member-derry-northern-ireland[/quote]
Yeah, this was exactly what was dismissed as "project fear".

Makes you sick.

The football stuff is ridiculous. Who cares, really?

The Labour Party apparently - their shadow minister said something about association football reform being in the Labour Party Manifesto since 2010.

HannibalHayeski
Another fisherman realising he got it wrong.

To be accurate it's the same fisherman/exporter interviewed by various publications in December 2020 and January 2021. When was the interview recorded?

Ooh, I've just found a website that c&pova will like; boris-johnson-lies.com

I see that your list was compiled in time for the 2019 general election - the last entry is 9 December 2019. What a pity that the Labour Party produced the biggest whopper of the election campaign with this;

Full Fact -
Labour claims about savings under their policies are not credible.

fullfact.org/election-2019/labour-claims-about-savings-under-their-policies-are-not-credible/

The Sun -
The [Labour] party have concocted an outlandish British home as having two working parents rich enough to commute into a city, pay for NHS prescriptions and have zero help with childcare.

But, despite that, they bizarrely still earn minimum wage, rent their home and receive free school meals.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/10480705/labour-government-would-save-families-nearly-7000-a-year-claims-john-mcdonnell/

Quite a few of the quotes in your link belong to other Conservative Party ministers and officials - would you like me to post fact checks for Angela Rayner, David Lammy, Jess Phillips, Jonathan Ashworth or Layla Moran...?

Just a few examples:

Is this a lie?
“Jeremy Corbyn … wouldn’t even stick up for this country when it came to the poisonings in Salisbury and actually seemed to side in that instance with Russia.”

www.theweek.co.uk/107899/jeremy-corbyn-refusal-to-condem-russia-salisbury-attack-political-poison
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jeremy-corbyns-stance-on-skripals-was-political-poison-at-the-polls-3hnbj7hpb

The BBC are complicit in the baby boom lie - Dec 2012;

Experts say a spring surge in the birth rate could be due to an incredible summer of sport. The fact checker in your link doesn't give any statistics for spring 2013.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-20605748

Not much point in your fact checker keeping this;

trade minister Liz Truss comes clean on all the UK/EU trade deals which won't be rolled over, and surprisingly it's all the big ones!
Canada? Nope
Japan? It's complicated
Mexico? Sorry
Turkey? Nada

RedToothBrush
Leave campaign figurehead Boris Johnson has said that the border arrangements would be “absolutely unchanged” in the event of Brexit.

To be fair, that's Boris Johnson's opinion in February 2016, not a statement of fact ("I think...") - it is also listed as one of the lies in Hannibal's link. John Major didn't even mention Northern Ireland in his lengthy essay in March 2016 (although he does mention Scottish independence) - the Blair/Major warning didn't come until June 2016.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35692452

It's awful to think we are going back to this again.

Belfast Telegraph today - 20 April 2021;

"Derry bomb attack: Man (33) arrested over 2015 murder bid on police officer."

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/derry-bomb-attack-man-33-arrested-over-2015-murder-bid-on-police-officer-40336288.html

What a pity that the Labour Party produced the biggest whopper of the election campaign with this;

Another Clavinova Classic. Labour politicians have to be held to a high standard, but they are not in Government.

Johnson, who leads the Government, can lie through his teeth, and for Clavinova that's absolutely fine. Or at least, she passed up repeated opportunities to say that no, of course it's not fine, so we were able to draw our own inferences.

"Derry bomb attack: Man (33) arrested over 2015 murder bid on police officer."

Quite so the embers of the Troubles still smoulder. So what does Boris Johnson do? What he doesn't do is attempt to douse the fire.

I wish Mumsnet had some way of 'liking' posts because Peregrina is getting a lot of virtual thumbs ups from me.

As usual C&pova indulges in the very weakest of whataboutery.

I honestly can't imagine having such an absence of any kind of feeling of shame...

Peregrina
Johnson, who leads the Government, can lie through his teeth

I don't believe he does lie through his teeth - much of what he says is ambiguous or misconstrued, misquoted, a U-turn (they are allowed), political spin...

I asked you what you thought of John Major's affair while he was a government minister - twice you dodged the question by telling me what other people thought. I did notice.

Quite so the embers of the Troubles still smoulder. So what does Boris Johnson do? What he doesn't do is attempt to douse the fire.

Boris Johnson visited Northern Ireland last month. The EU stirred the embers by attempting to trigger Article 16 in January - arguably John Major and Tony Blair did as well during their joint visit to Northern Ireland in June 2016.

8 December 2020
Good progress! Will finally provide some certainty on implementation of Brexit Protocol in Northern Ireland. Practical cooperation and flexibility has been agreed to make it as manageable as possible for people and businesses,” Simon Coveney said on Twitter.

The EU have been inflexible as far as I can tell.

I honestly can't imagine having such an absence of any kind of feeling of shame...

Anyone who tries to advance an argument by quoting the Sun as if it were some kind of real newspaper obviously doesn't know the meaning of the word.

Since Clavinova is desperate to hear what I think of John Major having an affair, I think it was hypocritical of him when he was going on about back to basics. Satisfied now?

You don't think Johnson is lying. You think he's misconstrued, (sob, sob). This is the man where it's a matter of public record that he has been sacked twice for lying. Perhaps he was 'misunderstood' both times? Believe it if you wish.

We know he was cheating on his wife when he had cancer. You have already said that his affair with Carrie didn't start until after his wife had got the all clear, but now we hear that he was having a four year affair with Jennifer Arcuri, which will have been at the time his wife did have cancer. Since this is a man who doesn't know how many children he has but we know that he has at least two as products of affairs, with another woman having and abortion, it very strongly looks as though Arcuri was the one telling the truth.

Northern Ireland - it might just be that as two of the architects of the GFA Major and Blair had a better idea of what the issues where than Johnson did.

As for the EU 'attempting to trigger A16'. No, they didn't, it was very quickly realised that this was a stupid action, and when the idea was mooted it was quickly squashed. But unlike you with Johnson, we don't think the EU is perfect. If we think they made a mistake we say so. We don't come out with misunderstood, ambiguous etc.

But why do I bother? In Clavinova's world the sun shines out of Johnson's arse. I do wonder what will happen when the Tories decide they have had enough of him and kick him out. Will he still be the hero, or will the loyalty be transferred?

"Ambiguous, misconstrued or misquoted" why is Boris not Archbishop of Canterbury? Surely an ideal candidate.

It seems the footie is safe though. I have just read that all six English clubs have withdrawn from this propose European Super League. Atlhough not being a football fan, I hadn't really got a clue what it was all about.

The football stuff is ridiculous. Who cares, really?

The Labour Party apparently - their shadow minister said something about association football reform being in the Labour Party Manifesto since 2010.

I meant actual people. I’m not interested in Labour’s position on football, and I doubt many people are, even Labour voters. One day it may become clear that few of us on here are remotely impressed by Labour on anything. I don’t know why the opposite interpretation of frequently expressed opinion that the Labour Party and particularly its leadership are lame apologies for an effective political party, let alone an opposition, persists.
I would be about as convinced by the opinions of Dan Dare’s Mekon on football as I am by any opposition spokesperson. Probably more so actually.

much of what he says is ambiguous or misconstrued, misquoted, a U-turn

The ambiguity is deliberate and calculated. He is a liar but a very accomplished liar, I’ll give him that. You can weasel out of anything if you choose your words carefully in the first place, and it speaks to a personality far more dangerous and damaged than appearances suggest, especially when the surface appearance is also a carefully calculated lie.

I changed my mind some time ago about Johnson being Britain’s Trump. With Trump, what you saw was what you got. People couldn’t credit what an awful person he was because they couldn’t believe that something better was being concealed. Johnson is the opposite. People think that beneath the lies, bluster and deceit lies a decent person at base. They’re wrong.

Now time is much more precious, there are some posters it simply isn't worth reading. If MN had an ignore function ....

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/pick-for-britain-scheme-scrapped-after-brits-fill-as-few-as-5-of-roles-265672

The government has scrapped the Pick for Britain campaign aimed at recruiting UK-based workers for seasonal farm roles after as few as 5 per cent of the required recruits turned up.

www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/brexit-sparks-1-trillion-uk-assets-switch-to-eu-study/

UK banks and insurers have shifted more than £1.0 trillion to the European Union in response to Brexit, a study published Friday (16 April) found.

Or more than WW2 cost us.

@DGRossetti

www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/brexit-sparks-1-trillion-uk-assets-switch-to-eu-study/

UK banks and insurers have shifted more than £1.0 trillion to the European Union in response to Brexit, a study published Friday (16 April) found.

Or more than WW2 cost us.

Auden famously said returning from the US that England looked like a country that had lost the war.

In this case, we have lost the war, but the half the country thinks we’ve won.

UK banks and insurers have shifted more than £1.0 trillion to the European Union in response to Brexit, a study published Friday (16 April) found.

Wait for Clavinova to come and tell us that someone has moved £500,000 of new business to the UK.

WW2 - for those of us older ones on the thread - it took a long time for the country to get back on its feet. I would say it was probably about 1960 ish.

WW2 - for those of us older ones on the thread - it took a long time for the country to get back on its feet. I would say it was probably about 1960 ish.

And the “war mentality” is still going strong among some of our generation (and, weirdly, the one after), Peregrina - nurtured by many years of the media harking back to those heady days of bravery, self sacrifice and rationing, The Great Escape and Dambusters every Christmas, gammony Tory MPs spluttering about traditional values and immigration and finally the series of elaborate lies and deceit that was the Leave campaign. Which brings us neatly back to Boris Johnson.

I know the Troubles never went away. Targeting a police officer is bad enough, targeting their young child takes it to another level. Honestly, that story made me feel sick too.

Johnson, who leads the Government, can lie through his teeth, and for Clavinova that's absolutely fine. Or at least, she passed up repeated opportunities to say that no, of course it's not fine, so we were able to draw our own inferences.

Clavinova has said repeatedly that Johnson doesn't lie, s/he the Tory flat earther, in that there is no amount of evidence that can move their position.

Love the Great Escape and the Dambusters. The former is pure fantasy, the Americans held in a different compound were not involved.
The Dambusters is a fantastic story, and the film is a masterpiece. Richard Todd who plays Gibson was an authentic war hero in his own right.