SLOW CLAP FOR BREXITEERS (again).

[alaia3]

I posted a while back about a ridiculous customs charge I had to pay due to the wonder that is Brexit.

So now, it’s a special birthday of a relative who has had a hard time recently. I ordered her a certain type of Murano glass vase (she collects these) and, hardly surprisingly, it comes from Italy where it is made. No problem as it’s free and fast delivery with this company.

Anyway, the vase didn’t arrive. Checked on UPS and hey presto - a customs charge of £170 for a vase that cost £450. This is “due to the inconvenience that is Brexit” that’s how it translates on the Italian tracking page).

So, it seems we can no longer order anything from Europe for to the genius of those who voted Brexit! Has anything more idiotic ever taken place in British history? Maybe reality will finally hit them at the same time as the customs charges hit?

@beginningoftheend

Apart from the fact that now the UK is no longer constrained by the EU, it has has managed to implement a much quicker and more effective vaccine program than the EU has achieved.

Although the UK vaccine rollout is undoubtedly a real achievement, it could have been done whether in the EU or outside the EU.

So our vaccine rollout plus a stronger economy due to no Brexit would still be a better position.

The UK could have done the same if it was still in the EU? In theory, possibly yes. In practice, very unlikely.

I do not think that Brexit will damage the UK in the longer term, although I don't delude myself that we are ever likely to bestride the world again. Asia, mainly China, is going to set the agenda for the next century. I do think there will be pain in the transitional phase. Why do I think this way?

Because the European Commission is "faceless, unfair and inefficient" and because the straitjacket of the Euro has enabled a few countries to benefit massively from exports denominated in a low rated currency where they would have struggled if their trading currency were based on their own economic performance.

The precautionary principle is a brake on innovation.

I voted to join the EEC permanently after the trial period in 1975, and would still welcome being part of a free trade area. I began to have misgivings after Maastricht when it became the EU with the declared intention of greater political/fiscal integration. And the despatch of an endless procession of failed but influential figures from the nations to Brussels with the mandate to set policy for the construction of their own fiefdoms was another factor.

But it was a decision I agonised over until the very last minute.

Although the UK vaccine rollout is undoubtedly a real achievement, it could have been done whether in the EU or outside the EU.

But we never did. With all our powers that we had to act our own way, whether with immigration or silly rules about kettles, we never did.
Our governments just toed the line, and shrugged, and pointed at the EU.
Now though, they have actually got to think and act for the UK, and if we don't like how they do it, we can VOTE THEM OUT; another thing we couldn't do with the EU.

@beginningoftheend. Unfortunately like the majority of the population I don't have an economics degree or a crystal ball so I can't respond to that. It's your view, fair enough. My view is that Covid, Boris&Co, tax evasion, fatcat salaries and the disgusting level of social inequality in the UK will do far, far more damage than Brexit ever could. I just won't listen to liars any more and for me that overrides economic considerations.

Like it or not, the UK has always been conflicted about Europe. It doesn't have the Euro, it does not want full integration. Thatcher first welcomed it, then didn't. It is not a clear-cut issue as they tried to present it to us in the referendum. You just can't take 40 years of conflicted EU membership and reduce it to to yes or no, leave or remain without dividing the whole country into two opposing factions, which was exactly what happened. It isn't that clear-cut. The grey area is too big. If I could go back to 2016, I would simply not vote and would just watch the whole mess unfold.

I wanted a third option on the referendum: Reform. Renegotiate the terms of membership. Hold the EU to account. Have someone (not Boris and not Juncker) explain to us plebs what these institutions actually do. Make it be an actual "Union". Make it actually do all the things it says on its glossy website. Narrow its remit so it isn't expensively issuing ridiculous directives about bananas and cucumbers in 27 different languages while failing to give help where it's needed (e.g. ironing out social dumping and helping refugees in the south of Italy).

But that option wasn't available. The referendum offered no scope for change or improvement, only entrenchment on one side or the other. On that basis, I considered a vote for the status quo (remain) as being a vote for a false god.

Until enough people actually stand up and start asking questions about these people we elect, we are going to get shit leaders and lack of transparency in Brussels, Strasbourg, London, Paris, Rome or wherever.

@Sugarygoodness

Although the UK vaccine rollout is undoubtedly a real achievement, it could have been done whether in the EU or outside the EU.

But we never did. With all our powers that we had to act our own way, whether with immigration or silly rules about kettles, we never did.
Our governments just toed the line, and shrugged, and pointed at the EU.
Now though, they have actually got to think and act for the UK, and if we don't like how they do it, we can VOTE THEM OUT; another thing we couldn't do with the EU.

Exactly! If we had still been in the EU we would have gone along with their vaccine program , like all the other EU countries. Only later would we have realised it wasn’t working and it was a mistake, much like other EU countries are realising now.

PersimmonTree - There was no point having a reform option on the referendum. David Cameron had already tried to get the EU to reform before the referendum. The options were to leave the EU, or stay in the EU with the reforms David Cameron had negotiated (i.e virtually no reforms). The EU weren’t going to budge any further.

Well, the EU also had to point out to Cameron that he already had the means to limit EU immigration if he wanted to - it was simply that the UK had not put in place the resources needed to do this. Nobody was monitoring who was coming in and out from the EU, and therefore nobody was able to check if people coming in did have either a job or sufficient funds in their bank account. Other EU countries do do these checks, and they certainly make you register your presence when you arrive. When I lived in Ireland I had to get registered within two weeks, I think. When I returned to the UK with my Irish-born children, I made loads of phone calls to try and find out who I had to tell about them. And whenever we were visiting the UK from Ireland and one of the kids was unwell, which was quite often, I'd always produce my EHIC and private Irish health insurance at the health centre/ hospital, only to be told that they didn't have the mechanisms to handle it. This was very kind, but makes a mockery of the moaning about uncontrolled immigration and access to NHS care.

@Doris86 well you'll never get me to admit that a Tory PM did everything possible. But if he did in fact do as much as any PM could have done, change was inevitable. Had the remainers won, the problems would have reoccurred further down the line. When systems are fundamentally flawed, those flaws will be exposed in the end, but possibly not before huge fractures have appeared. If the EU keeps performing this badly, either it fixes its problems or other member states will want to leave too.

@alaia3

How many things in your house are “British” PotNoodle?

I didn't say that everything in a home has to be 'British', that isn't the point I'm making, it's about orderering products from another country as a direct consumer. To that end I have one hoodie that I bought from the US about 15 years ago that wouldn't be of value to acrue a tax. Everything else in my home is from a British retailer regardless of where it was manufactured.

The conversation on the thread has changed since my post and I have nothing to add to the current topic, however I still think its incredibly distasteful to bemoan additional taxes on luxury and effectively useless items due to Brexit.

however I still think its incredibly distasteful to bemoan additional taxes on luxury and effectively useless items due to Brexit.

The point is there are additional taxes on all items, surely?

I read up thread it was only items over £135?

I suspect OP could very well buy her art and gifts from the UK, but then she wouldn't get to brag about where all her fancy stuff was 'sourced' from.

Why are so many posters being so savage about OP spending £450 on a vase? It's not a life changing amount of money. It's not the tens of thousands people on here regularly post about spending on private education. It wouldn't buy you a posh car. I know well enough that £450 is a lot of money to lots of people, but from my own experience of MN, it's not a ridiculous amount for a lot of posters. I couldn't justify spending that on a vase personally, it I've spent that on other 'luxury' items. Like a bike! I can't understand the vitriol about spending less than £500.

@Kolo couldn't give a damn about the £450 for the bad, it's the whinging about the tax that gets me. When she knows it happens!

I'm a remainer BTW.

The vase not the bad 🙄

If it matters that much to you, then go ahead. Pay the taxes, give the gift and move on.

But please, don't deck yourself with laurel wreaths as any kind of campaigner.

@PersimmonTree, I could swear I read your post verbatim on another thread earlier today. You are a bot, right?

XingMing Don't be a bully.

The thread is about loss of previous freedom and choice. If you don't agree, great, give your opinion.
It goes for many different aspects of our lives, as those currently under threat of deportation from Spain, or those in France who are unable to take the country's driving test, in French, at the cost of E1800, within the necessary timeframe.
A vase is the least of it perhaps, but a personal anecdote that exemplifies.

No need to be rude to anyone that doesn't share, and won't be barracked into sharing your well known and omnipresent opinions.

I don't get how many Brexiters keep piling in to these threads. Those of us that know what's going on are not fooled by the constant attempt at hammering home your antiEU ranting.
I don't understand why you can't simply get on with your lives, content that you have achieved exactly what you wanted.

@DoubleTweenQueen

I don't get how many Brexiters keep piling in to these threads. Those of us that know what's going on are not fooled by the constant attempt at hammering home your antiEU ranting. I don't understand why you can't simply get on with your lives, content that you have achieved exactly what you wanted.

Because threads like this are purposefully goady?

Why are so many posters being so savage about OP spending £450 on a vase?

It's the fact that her reason for wanting to remain in the EU is to have access to cheaper postage on luxury goods. She doesn't care about those further down the ladder who couldn't get doctors appointments, or the young people who can't get seasonal work etc. Her gripe is fancy glassware.

@Sansaplans Why do your feel you need to rise to it through? And XingMing is a particularly acerbic poster.
Haven't seen them on the 'effects of Brexit not covered in the press' though?

[quote DoubleTweenQueen]@Sansaplans Why do your feel you need to rise to it through? And XingMing is a particularly acerbic poster.
Haven't seen them on the 'effects of Brexit not covered in the press' though?[/quote]
I don't, I voted remain, but with a title such as this thread I don't think it's surprising at all that people do rise to it. If this thread was called unforseen or inconvenience of Brexit then probably would be less prevelent than one called slow clap for brexiteers. I would suggest OP knew what they were doing, especially as the last thread went the same way.

@Sugarygoodness

Why are so many posters being so savage about OP spending £450 on a vase?

It's the fact that her reason for wanting to remain in the EU is to have access to cheaper postage on luxury goods. She doesn't care about those further down the ladder who couldn't get doctors appointments, or the young people who can't get seasonal work etc. Her gripe is fancy glassware.

That's not what I took from OPs post at all. It could be any item from Europe. The fact is we can't enjoy the same choice of goods as we used to as part of the EU, there are barriers to importing. That does suck about leaving the EU. It could be a vase or a car or sports wear or computer components or medicine.

I can't see where the OP has said she doesn't care about doctors queues and so on and I don't see how they are related to brexit at all.

@Kolo It's the joy of SM. I wouldn't mind, but thinktanks and the media do take notice of it.