SLOW CLAP FOR BREXITEERS (again).

[alaia3]

I posted a while back about a ridiculous customs charge I had to pay due to the wonder that is Brexit.

So now, it’s a special birthday of a relative who has had a hard time recently. I ordered her a certain type of Murano glass vase (she collects these) and, hardly surprisingly, it comes from Italy where it is made. No problem as it’s free and fast delivery with this company.

Anyway, the vase didn’t arrive. Checked on UPS and hey presto - a customs charge of £170 for a vase that cost £450. This is “due to the inconvenience that is Brexit” that’s how it translates on the Italian tracking page).

So, it seems we can no longer order anything from Europe for to the genius of those who voted Brexit! Has anything more idiotic ever taken place in British history? Maybe reality will finally hit them at the same time as the customs charges hit?

@Itsalonghaul

Bitter ex pats on the threads these days are the only ones left bashing Britain now. Thank goodness. That is definitely progress.

Definitely not an expat.

It’s a real pity that so many are willing to tolerate the level of corruption, the food bank queues, the curtailment of civil liberties, the increased inequalities, the limitations, the immoral prime minister, the destruction of our tolerant and welcoming country.

Same people will be moaning about the NHS, when they have chosen to reduce the number of staff wanting to work here. Where are those 40 hospitals?
Who is picking our farm produce? Oh let me think, it’s the same Romanians now shipped in under cover of darkness, because the proud nationalist think we don’t need them and doing it openly would rather undermine the ‘stand alone’ nationalist rubbish.

Maybe the proBrexit returning expats can start fruit picking and working in the NHS?

Given that most companies stockpiled for the anticipated huge lorry queues that never happened, I think we need to take the first quarter with a pinch of salt beginning

Far too soon to be jumping to any conclusions whatsoever.
I note you are not talking very much about international investment increasing or the relocation of many companies in Europe opening HQs in the UK. For balance, we need not only cover the negatives.

It is very important not to assume all leave voters are ignorant.

But if someone says they think we can leave the EU without negative economic consequences, they are wrong and if that is not due to ignorance of the facts, what is it due to? The only other option is they are deliberately lying.

@Itsalonghaul

Given that most companies stockpiled for the anticipated huge lorry queues that never happened, I think we need to take the first quarter with a pinch of salt beginning

Far too soon to be jumping to any conclusions whatsoever.
I note you are not talking very much about international investment increasing or the relocation of many companies in Europe opening HQs in the UK. For balance, we need not only cover the negatives.

The stockpiling issue is covered in the article and is another red herring.

I am happy for you to say Brexit is good for reasons other than the economy but the economic impact is clear, it always was and now it is becoming clear in real data.

@beginningoftheend

It is very important not to assume all leave voters are ignorant.

But if someone says they think we can leave the EU without negative economic consequences, they are wrong and if that is not due to ignorance of the facts, what is it due to? The only other option is they are deliberately lying.

Don’t need to assume. The evidence is plain for all who wish to see.

Don’t need to assume. The evidence is plain for all who wish to see.

So you've met every single leave voter.... wow you've been busy.

I rarely hear leave voters able to talk about economic realities of Brexit, but am always happy to listen. I take each one I do meet/speak to as an individual.

The problem is sooner or later you always get to 'we will have new trade deals with other conutries to replace the lost trade' (no, we won't) or 'people will buy more British products' (it doesn't work like that) and then there is nowhere to go but conclude they are ignorant of trade realities, because I don't want to assume they are all lying to me!

@smigg

The poster who I quoted, who said to buy British.

But you replied to my post where I said I had bought some Murano glass in London to tell me it was from Murano, which was never in dispute.

The poster who said buy British, didn't say buy British Murano did they?

I replied to a poster saying "buy British" in response to an OP about specifically Italian glass. I was pointing out that you can't buy British Murano glass. You quoted me and said you could buy it in London. So I tried to point out it still wasn't British glass - a British stockist will have imported it. It feels like you're making an argument out of nothing. You know you can't buy British Murano glass, so do I, which is what I posted.

@joangray38

I wanted to buy some makeup - £18 tax and no I don’t want/can’t buy British as it isn’t made here. Same with murano glass the name gives it away. Choice is taken away and the buyer wont just buy British why should they after having access to the European market place.

This is it, isn't it. Choice has been taken away from us.

beginning I am definitely not going to get into an economic argument with you about brexit. It is done to death. It is only you that feels it needs a rehash. No one else is interested.

We will see in 5-10 years. If you know anything about economics you can't look at a few months of data in the middle of lockdown and a pandemic and concur anything from it!

So your posts become empty and negative sound bites that are meaningless.

Some of us have confidence, some of us have less confidence, most of us want to see the country do well now. Your posts sound out of step now.

@beginningoftheend

I rarely hear leave voters able to talk about economic realities of Brexit, but am always happy to listen. I take each one I do meet/speak to as an individual.

The problem is sooner or later you always get to 'we will have new trade deals with other conutries to replace the lost trade' (no, we won't) or 'people will buy more British products' (it doesn't work like that) and then there is nowhere to go but conclude they are ignorant of trade realities, because I don't want to assume they are all lying to me!

And how many remain voters know and understand the finer details of economic and trade policies?

I voted remain as did the majority of my friends and colleagues but I very much doubt the majority could explain the details ..... but nobody ever asks them to! However, the second somebody says they voted leave they're expected to offer up a detailed explanation and get shouted down for being thick and ignorant. It's disgraceful.

A close friend of mine voted leave and he is hands down the most intelligent person I know. He's phd educated and is so knowledgeable about politics and economics. He's the only person I know who really delved into the granular detail and he can put his points across in an articulate way yet he gets called all kinds of horrible things.

If people wish to bury their heads in the sand for 5-10 years that is their right of course. Certainly I would be trying to avoid talking about it now if I had voted brexit as emerging evidence is bad. We must remain focused on the horizon where things are hazy!

It is interesting how Brexit voters can never explain how the economic picture will improve in 5-10 years, but they are amazingly confident it will.

I am not sure I would say my posts are out of step, certainly not with industry spokespeople involved in farming, fishing, food production, exports, creative industries amongst others...

I am not sure I would say my posts are out of step, certainly not with industry spokespeople involved in farming, fishing, food production, exports, creative industries amongst others...

I am sure your posts are not out of step. Many industries have been very badly damaged by the effects of Brexit. And waiting five for ten years to see the benefits was certainly not written on the bus, though once the referendum was safely over Jacob Rees-Mogg did say it would take us 50 years to see any benefits. That's my childrens' working lives.

It's not only economics, trade and GDP, I am also watching what will happen as legislation is 'updated' - employment and environmental law in particular.
Personal ease of traveling to, studying in, retiring to, and purchasing directly from the EU has changed. Those were simple freedoms a lot of people enjoyed, and I don't think will be felt too much until we are able to travel again.
I don't see how any of it is beneficial. I don't see the point of Brexit. I feel it's restrictions though, and worry about it's implications for the whole population.

Not for me beginning it is all just pure speculation. Many economists are predicting a lot of growth, but that doesn't fit your narrative. So there is no point in discussing it. Six years in and we are tired of it, we have moved on.

@SeasonFinale

I think the funniest post was the PP who said you can buy it in Britain from here - linked to Amazon where it clearly stated that the item would be shipped from Murano in Italy.

I agree that there are all sorts of things that are PITA brought about by Brexit, Op, but unfortunately your post will always attract the Brexiteers piling on because of your title.

I find it funny when people make up stuff that wasn't said. I said "I look at this and wonder what’s so special about this 1,600 murano pair of vases"

It's true that many economists are predicting growth, but at a much slower rate than would have been the case had we stayed in the EU.
The only economist who advocated Brexit is Patrick Minford; he's the bloke who told Thatcher that the poll tax was a good idea.

@Itsalonghaul

Not for me beginning it is all just pure speculation. Many economists are predicting a lot of growth, but that doesn't fit your narrative. So there is no point in discussing it. Six years in and we are tired of it, we have moved on.

You use the royal 'we' a lot as though you speak for everyone . I think it sounds more like you personally don't like talking about it.

Clearly some of 'us' are still interested in the nation's economic future.

@TheJerkStore "And how many remain voters know and understand the finer details of economic and trade policies?

I voted remain as did the majority of my friends and colleagues but I very much doubt the majority could explain the details ..... but nobody ever asks them to! However, the second somebody says they voted leave they're expected to offer up a detailed explanation and get shouted down for being thick and ignorant. It's disgraceful."

This is also my exact experience. People just shut down the conversation but offer no counter-argument. I have no idea why people remain so attached to these faceless and very unfair, inefficient institutions and why expressing dislike for such inefficiency and unfairness results in stunned silence at the dinner table - yet a complete inability to offer a simple explanation as to why the EU is the only possible solution and why I am a thick, ignorant flag-waver if I dare to suggest that the EU, like the rest of our political systems, needs reining in and restructuring.

I voted Remain and agree that several aspects of the EU need reform and improvement. But I've yet to see any convincing argument suggesting we are better off out rather than in. And I don't think it's unfair to ask those who voted away the rights and freedoms of millions to be able to come up with solid, evidence-based benefits. I have asked Leave-voting friends nicely why it's a good idea, because I'm very keen indeed that it shouldn't be a disaster. The most optimistic answers I've had are 'Nobody has a crystal ball.' and (from a very intelligent guy indeed) 'It's a good idea but it's working out really badly because the wrong people are in charge', but he didn't want to elaborate. As someone who works in European languages, and with EU colleagues, and who is devastated by the loss of Erasmus on top of everything else, I find it immensely frustrating to have lost so much for a future visited upon all of us by people who can't articulate its benefits or compensations.

This is also my exact experience. People just shut down the conversation but offer no counter-argument. I have no idea why people remain so attached to these faceless and very unfair, inefficient institutions and why expressing dislike for such inefficiency and unfairness results in stunned silence at the dinner table - yet a complete inability to offer a simple explanation as to why the EU is the only possible solution and why I am a thick, ignorant flag-waver if I dare to suggest that the EU, like the rest of our political systems, needs reining in and restructuring.

That is fine - but that is not the conversation I have been trying and failing to have with Briexit voters since 2016.

My view is economically Brexit will damage Britain to such an extent that it is not in our interests to have done it. Do you think that is correct yes or no? If you say no, please can you explain how that can be so? I am happy to listen. If yes and you don't care because it is about the institutions, then you make sense to me (even if I weigh the argument differently).

@Doris86

Have you had your vaccine yet?

WTAF has Brexit got to do with vaccines???

Absolutely nothing!

[quote SofiaMichelle]@Doris86

Have you had your vaccine yet?

WTAF has Brexit got to do with vaccines???

Absolutely nothing![/quote]
Apart from the fact that now the UK is no longer constrained by the EU, it has has managed to implement a much quicker and more effective vaccine program than the EU has achieved.

But yes apart from that, absolutely nothing.

Apart from the fact that now the UK is no longer constrained by the EU, it has has managed to implement a much quicker and more effective vaccine program than the EU has achieved.

Although the UK vaccine rollout is undoubtedly a real achievement, it could have been done whether in the EU or outside the EU.

So our vaccine rollout plus a stronger economy due to no Brexit would still be a better position.

@Doris86 That really isn’t the case, but the Gvmnt have portrayed it as a Brexit win while understanding completely that it is nothing of the sort.