Westministenders: Unilateral Ignoring of WHO rules

[RedToothBrush]

Where we are:

On 1st January the EU started to apply checks on all goods from the UK coming into the Union.

However the UK decided to take a slower route to this, and planned that on the 1st April the UK we would be carrying out Sanitary & Phytosanitary paperwork for animal and plant EU imports like meat and eggs.

Then on 1 July we'd implement a full customs check on all goods arriving into the UK from EU member states.

Obviously we've struggled with exports as we weren't ready for this and its fucked business. But ultimately the import side of things has yet to hit the shit fan still.

It sounds like there is likely to be issues with imports of food in particular, so there is talk of delaying our plan of checks until later in the day. There is concern that the reopening of pubs and restuarants which will up demands of imports occuring at the same time as checks are put in place is likely to be 'problematic'.

Remember we get 2/3 of fruit, veg and cheese from the EU. And half our wine. And to date these largely have only been affected by haulage issues NOT UK customs issues...

You might want to keep that in mind.

I don't see why this would be more of an issue with AZ than any of the brands.

I think they are using a different process. Which in itself is not a bad thing. We might be able to target the vaccines more - e.g. AZ cheaply and easy to store for much of the population but for those who can't tolerate that as well, one of the others which are more expensive and need more careful storage.

@HannibalHayes

Biden's tariff threat reveals Britain’s newfound weakness to trade outside the EU

Also to be filed under "No shit Sherlock"...

That article doesn't quite paint the whole picture.

Obviously the US is going to ensure it recoups any losses from taxes to the UK. That's a given. It's a zero sum game.

However the UK is also on the hook for a fucktonne more that needs to be repaid. Not quite the WW2 debt all over again, but I imagine by the time it's paid off, it may as well have been.

I think they are using a different process. Which in itself is not a bad thing. We might be able to target the vaccines more - e.g. AZ cheaply and easy to store for much of the population but for those who can't tolerate that as well, one of the others which are more expensive and need more careful storage.

It's already (or should be) well understood that individual genomes have a completely different reaction to disease(s). So it's quite possible some people are better suited to one vaccine than another.

No matter the rhetoric of the moment or the vaccine nationalism of this year, the stark reality is that Britain will need to pull closer to the EU in the future if it is to defend its own interests.

Or the UK (or what is left of it) completely throws in its lot with the US. But some things just won't be competitive - we could truck lorry loads of lettuces from Spain relatively cheaply, we can't airfreight them in cheaply.

At a guess, I would suspect that in a year or two, things which are red lines now will be quietly dropped and that in 10 years will be back in the customs union.

Or the UK (or what is left of it) completely throws in its lot with the US

That does rather imply that's something the US would be even interested, let alone want.

Nothing in their behaviour these past 100 years leads me to believe that's the case. In fact, given their behaviour from 1941 onwards, I would be inclined to believe the reverse.

In 2016, the UK could proudly - defiantly even - take it's place as the premier power in the EU dedicated to keeping the transatlantic bridge (or tunnel, Boris) wide open and free flowing. Indisputably the second most important Anglophone nation in the world.

Now we've relocated the bridge (or tunnel, or tunnels) to the middle of nowhere and it has to be rebuilt (hence the UK paying the US for it). And it's looking increasingly likely that Germany and France will become the second most important Anglophone nations on earth. Which is twisting the knife a bit, but no less than deserved.

Certainly DGR when it came to talk of a European Army, it would have been the UK and France as the two major military nations of Europe being the ones fighting it out for leadership, or taking turns at least. Now if that were to happen, France would be the obvious leader.

@Peregrina

Certainly DGR when it came to talk of a European Army, it would have been the UK and France as the two major military nations of Europe being the ones fighting it out for leadership, or taking turns at least. Now if that were to happen, France would be the obvious leader.

Talk of a European army was just that, as far as I am concerned. And last time France and the UK militarily worked together without the US, it did not go well. In fact, it could be argued the US sold us down the canal.

I think the last time the UK and France worked together was in Libya deposing Gaddafi, and that didn't go well either.

@Peregrina

I think the last time the UK and France worked together was in Libya deposing Gaddafi, and that didn't go well either.

Ah, I was thinking more Suez ...

Still rather underscores the point about an EU army being a bit like fusion power for generals - in 10 years time ...

Any experts like to confirm my suspicion that this can be used on some UK websites till 2026 ?

I came across it when looking at adult education and wondered if it's still valid and how long for ....

Why are the UK in total denial of the potential risks of the AstraZeneca vaccine? You see it all over the media and other threads here, and questioning it is taken as a personal insult as if you've said their baby is ugly. Germany has now had 9 deaths linked to it, all young healthy people, mostly women. Norway has had 4. Sweden has had 2. Denmark and Austria have also had deaths. The howls of outrage at these countries restricting it while they investigate is bizarre. I geniunely don't get how people think it's all to spite Britain as if Britain is so important that other countries are focused on them during a pandemic while their citizens are dying. How up your own arse can a country be?

Germany has now had 9 deaths linked to it, all young healthy people, mostly women. Norway has had 4. Sweden has had 2.

To be honest that sounds almost like it's simply a function of sample size.

A few weeks ago someone was really digging into the UK figures until they went "aha - see people died of blood clots after receiving the vaccine". Where was the number of people who die of blood clots anyway.

If the UK agencies have managed to cook the books, I'd be impressed. Much like the Apollo hoax it would have been easier to make a decent vaccine than try to fake it.

What we are seeing - in my humble or otherwise opinion - is what happens when a lot of people are functionally innumerate, but have access to Twitter and Facebook.

Bear in mind I start from a position that any medical procedure has a risk. Even a buccal swab.

It about balancing the risks against the benefits. If the risks of dying from covid was equal for all groups then the benefits would outweigh the risks. But if the risks are only found in young healthy people who have an extremely low risk from covid too, then that balance will tip differently.

At an individual level I've told my DD(27) not to take the AZ one, and I'm hoping she'll be offered the Pfizer with her history. In 2019 she has the same rare immune response that some people are having to the AZ vaccine. Thankfully she survived but she spent months in hospital and now has a reduced immune system for life. I don't think it's worth the risk for given there are other options that don't carry that risk.

It about balancing the risks against the benefits

Oh dear.

We are fucked then. That's probably the one thing we are atrocious at as a mass.

Sorry.

FatCatThinCat
I've had the AZ vaccine, as have many of my friends.

The risks of illness and death from COVID are orders of magnitude greater than those from the vaccine.

People get blood clots.
They die.
Its shit.
But the numbers are still so low that correlation and causation are not in any way definite.

The vaccine nationalism is going to cost lives
and that is unforgivable.

@ListeningQuietly it's not about blood clots, it's about an immune response where the body destroys its own platelets leading to hemorrhaging throughout the body and catastrophic bleeds in the brain. Some countries, like here in Sweden, have decided that that risk is too high in otherwise healthy young adults. In older people who are at high risk from covid, the benefits outweigh the risks. It's a value judgment that the health experts in other countries are making. The point being, they are free to make whatever decision they think is in the best interests of their citizens and it has bugger all to do with poking the UK in the eye. That's the bit that annoys me, the angry insistence that it's all down to post brexit jealousy and spite.

That's the bit that annoys me, the angry insistence that it's all down to post brexit jealousy and spite.

But remember, the vaccine nationalism is the only thing that the Brexiters have. It's the one thing that Johnson didn't cock up, more by luck that judgement. The Canadians are now asking for caution with the AZ vaccine - I can't see them being motivated primarily by a desire to stick it to the UK.

I think the risk is lower for older people, because they have a weaker immune system. They get less ill from taking the AZ vaccine - often not ill at all - whereas young people can be quite badly affected.

Fatcat
it's about an immune response where the body destroys its own platelets leading to hemorrhaging throughout the body and catastrophic bleeds in the brain. Some countries, like here in Sweden, have decided that that risk is too high in otherwise healthy young adults.
I do not want to derail this thread onto COVID
but MILLIONS of Brits have had the AZ vaccine
many of them under 50 (NHS workers, carers, front line workers)
where are the deaths ?

where are the deaths ?

Do we trust this Government to report honestly? They have a vested interest in promoting the AZ vaccine because for them it's their Brexit trophy.

Alternatively, if one were conspiracy minded, one could hypothesise that it is in the long term interests of the other vaccine manufacturers, who are making a profit from their sales, to subtly cast aspersions on and reduce the demand for the AZ vaccine, which is being made available at cost.

In the interests of transparency, I (happily ) had my 1st AZ jag last week.

My dad (who has now had both AZ jags) mentioned something about reading in the BMJ that those who had been given the placebo had had more clot related problems than those that had actually been given the vaccine . (He's a retired medic but will readily admit he wasn't in the infectious diseases field - he was a radiologist)

When they were testing it, the placebo wasn't an inert substance but was, I believe, the meningitis vaccine. This info came from someone taking part in the Oxford trials. What do we know about what side effects that has?

Enjoy your summer then, @KonTikki.

How can we have 'no future's?
Are 70+ million of us going to just disappear.

Why are the UK in total denial of the potential risks of the AstraZeneca vaccine
Because the statistics say there is no increase in clot related problems that can be related to the vaccine.

There is also the fact that AZ is based on 'old' technology so carrier related issues would have surfaced long ago. I'd actually expect tbe pfizer and moderna vaccines to be more likely to surface issues given they are based on 'unproven' tech.

who are making a profit from their sales,

This.

The ever reliable "how to vaccinate the world" on R4 noted that AZ stand to make 1bn from the vaccine, Pfizer and Moderna stand to make 15bn and 17bn respectively - thats a lot of incentive to find reasons why your much easier to handle competitor has issues.

For conspiracy theory nuts, is it more likely that WHO, MHRA etc are hiding issues than pharma is lobbying national authorities?