Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.

[RedToothBrush]

An 'interesting' week. To say the least.

It has highlighted the purpose, point and weaknesses of the EU. It has revealled that the Irish Border is an ongoing issue which can not be ignored. Not only is it causing shortages in NI but it also reminds us that a zero covid strategy for the UK can not be managed unilaterally; we are not New Zealand.

It shows up the changing geo-politics of leaving. We have applied to join the Asia-Pacific free trade pact just a day after Macron told us to chose out allies and reminded us that geography and history have always tied our fate to France.

The epic fuck up of the EU has lead a rallying cry of support for leaving... but covid is currently hiding much of the reality of the implications of Brexit which will yet come out in the wash.

Brexit and Covid are tied together as conjoined twins of economic disaster though. Once restrictions start to lift, the shit will start to hit the fan. The efforts on where to aportion blame will start but it won't be on Brexit. We've known this for some time. Brexit no longer is relevant. Except of course it is. But who is writing the winner's narrative? Things are as they have always been. There is no squirrel. The squirrel is thinking that Brexit and Covid are separate things when those in charge don't.

In terms of the vaccine suggest, I think its worth reflecting on why it was successful. Johnson played the vaccine procurement like a gambler, who bet on all the horses in order to ensure we got a winner. Throwing the kitchen sink at a problem which shut the entire economy down was always the safe option. Especially when it was also a pretty certain bet that there would be unequal rollout and a shortage when one was found. If you think about it in those terms, it easier to see how this has been a success for the government: if only one vaccine was successful, we'd be grateful we'd invested in so many options. If all the vaccines came in good we'd end up in a good place. It was a win:win strategy, and one that was not that hard to do. We now find that whilst we were cutting the International Aid Budget we were also working on soft power that excess vaccine stocks and production capability bring... I note here its actually much harder to pull off successfully if you are considerably larger like the EU because of the sheer numbers involved - the dynamics always favoured the UK and I think this probably was something the UK was aware of and was worked into strategic planning. Other things will be much harder to get such easy political wins on - not least because they still involve the economics of geography and that being smaller is typically a weakness not a strength in trading - vaccines and supply shortages are the ultimate exception not the rule. The rule is proven by the EU's politicking and the threat of a vaccine trade war.

Thus the Tory Party have seen Brexit and Covid as being intrinsically linked for some time. I don't think everyone else has quite managed to wrap their head around the fact that its near impossible at this stage to disentangle to two because of this mentality.

This current batch of Tories are disaster capitalists after all, and the twin of Brexit and Covid is a gift to their ambition.

I'll just remind you what the goal really is here. Remember Johnson's speech at the Tory Party Conference in October:
www.conservatives.com/news/boris-johnson-read-the-prime-ministers-keynote-speech-in-full

We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.

They are more often than not the trigger for an acceleration of social and economic change, because we human beings will not simply content ourselves with a repair job.

He is fully signed up to the Cummings/Gove school of thought of burn it down and rebuild afresh.

The idea that he cares about sorting out and repairing the problems Brexit brings, miss the ultimate point: He doesn't want to.

Miaowse 'I also find it shocking that the conservatives have maintained their reputation of caring about the economy in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.'

Yes. Indeed.

My second thoughts on the article:

Starmer has clearly decided he has a timetable. And sorting out public perceptions of Labour (culture) should be done ahead of policy.

And I think he's right. We can do flap all right now. Even if he looks 'in the fence', he's gambling on getting the cultural stuff sorted, and then having time to concentrate on policy.

Why do I think he's right? Well, HesterThrale linked to Anneliese Dodds' lecture on Labour's economic planning. It was good. Well thought out - but does it have any cut-through?

No.

It's drowned out by the culture stuff.

Unbelievable, really, when we have a government whose economic planning is essentially crisis-management, quick-profit-privatisation and hints about austerity for the poor coming soon.

And yet the public don't really research, reflect and compare the two approaches. They fall back on cultural pre-conceptions.

And I think we have a mountain to climb. Rightly or wrongly, the public had a very strong, negative perception of Labour under Corbyn.

And it lingers.

Rightly or wrongly, Labour have to actively work to dismiss and allay fears that cling to Labour. A lot of those preconceptions pre-date Corbyn, I think, and one of the problems he ran into was that he didn't allay them.

It's not fair - but it's what it is.

I just think the public are going to see this as a cynical attempt to appear patriotic rather than actually being patriotic. And I can’t bloody stand flags.

It feels like their Brexit approach again - make a lacklustre attempt to chase the voters who already have several parties to vote for and ignore the other half who are left with no one to represent them - taking for granted they will continue to vote labour as there is no other option.

Miaowse
'I just think the public are going to see this as a cynical attempt to appear patriotic rather than actually being patriotic. And I can’t bloody stand flags.'

This is interesting.

Do you think Labour are unpatriotic? How? What does that mean? Are they trying to undermine the U.K.?

I mean, I'm guessing you don't think Starmer is a fifth columnist, trying to take down the U.K.

But I think your statement kind of shows what Labour are up against.

(And part of that is the lack of space and time for nuance.)

I promise to stop posting ... I'm just finding it so interesting as I think about it ...

The thing about 'not liking flags.'

Well, I don't like flags.

To the extent that I had the chance of buying a limited edition Jamie Reid print very, very cheaply - and didn't because it had a Union Jack as its central image.

But, here's the thing: lots of people - lots of left-leaning and central people don't feel that way. And some are neither here nor there on the flag issue - but see anti-flag stuff as signalling something beyond just the flag thing.

And what both those groups see/feel, when you really dig down, is that the anti-flag people - who are quite a vocal group, identified with Labour, really don't like is them.

They see it as a section of Labour people assuming all sorts of things about them and despising them.

Let's face it, if you look at Twitter tomorrow, debate will be pretty unnuanced. People will go immediately to a collapse of being positive about patriotism equalling being responsible for slavery, colonialism and racism.
And that unnuanced collapse will do nothing to bring a whole section of people on board. It will alienate them.

You and I might not like flags, but we share the world with people who don't feel that way, aren't necessarily racists for doing so, and we need them on board. We really do.

And the other thing about flags ...

I voted against Brexit partly because the PSC, of which I was a member, sent an email out telling its members that the U.K. being in the EU was a good thing for Palestinians.

So, that's me.

But blimey ... Labour under Corbyn really did go a bit bonkers about flags.

Social media was full of fury about being anti-flags, yet there was a Party conference, where Corbyn addressed a sea of Palestinian flags.

What were observers meant to make of that? The only possible conclusion was that 'anti-flag' only actually meant the Union Jack.

And from there, the path to the conclusion that Labour was deeply unpatriotic was an easy one to follow.

So, images matter. 🤷‍♀️

I think the biggest problem for Labour is that they aren’t part of the narrative at the moment, as the narrative is Covid and secondarily Brexit and they apparently have nothing useful to say on either, other than generally supporting the Government. At least when JC was in charge he was in the public eye, even if just to be slagged off, but oddly enough I (for one) found a fair amount of what he said sensible and convincing, and I’ve never been a Labour supporter.
As Brexit is turning daily into more of a shitshow, it’s becoming very clear that not abstaining on the vote on the “deal” was a massive tactical mistake. Labour having bought into Brexit like this, and not being proactive in any way on Covid renders them irrelevant. For example, they could have made an effort to really push an “open schools safely” agenda, with masks, rotas, blended learning, investment in tech and so on. It wouldn’t have cost a penny, it would have shown they were actually thinking about the problem and it would have put clear blue water between them and Government. But they just toed the Govt line. They do this on pretty much everything, so why bother with them? Andy Burnham is about the only prominent Lab politician showing some initiative. He impresses me even though I don’t particularly like or trust him.

Fascinating and insightful debate as usual.

I'm especially delighted to see @thecatfromjapan posting again. She articulates and draws conclusions from a mix of facts, thoughts and instincts that otherwise would remain as a jumbled mess in my brain. A bit like google translate for my thought process.

A couple of random things: on flags: Dislike the Union Jack and the cross of st George for two reasons: what I feel they have both come to represent and also, in the case of the UJ how it is deliberately presented by the current government- furled, authoritarian. See also Trump. The EU flag on the other hand, seems entirely non threatening; these gut reactions go beyond my own political and cultural leanings I think.

On Brexit- did anyone else hear Farming Today this morning? It is predictably becoming Brexit fallout in a nutshell. Absence of EU farm workers as it is next to impossible for them to collect sufficient points, should they even wish to come here; and major problems ahead as thousands of dairy breeding stock are stuck in The Netherlands as the correct receiving facilities not built and paperwork problems escalate. Cabinet Office ( mark this, not Defra) have suggested Dover - and Holyhead ! as an option. More Raab-esque geography failure there I think.

My favourite comment on the Italien bee story was from a British beekeeper who said this is a blow to beekeeper all over Britain as Italian bees are preferred as they're quite calm and placid, unlike British bees which are nasty bastards.

Labour.
Call it what you like.
Defend it how you like.
Pandering to vacuous racists is not a strategy imo.
Certainly not one that will win me back as a Labour voter.

A couple of random things: on flags: Dislike the Union Jack and the cross of st George for two reasons: what I feel they have both come to represent and also, in the case of the UJ how it is deliberately presented by the current government- furled, authoritarian. See also Trump. The EU flag on the other hand, seems entirely non threatening; these gut reactions go beyond my own political and cultural leanings I think.
How do you feel about the SNP requisitioning the Saltire?

Flagism is dangerous.

Dislike the flag - dislike the country.
Like the flag - like the institution.
SIMPLES - only (as previous posters said) it isn't.

The Union flag represents colonialism, empire, slave trading ...
But it also represents 2 world wars (and a world cup), Olympics 2012...

When someone says they dislike the Union Flag some take it as dissing 2 WWars, like the flag you embrace empire and slavery. All nuance is lost and the culture wars thrive.

That you can be proud of UK because ... and dislike some parts of its history because ... becomes lost. You are with us or against us. There is no middle ground.

Please don't stop posting catfromjapan I am also finding this mornings debate on Starmer/Labour/Patriotism fascinating and you've made some comments which I found really insightful even tho politically I imagine you and I are quite far apart.

I have no issue with the SNP using the Saltire: it is after all the flag of Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Likewise, I have no issue with Unionists who don't want Scotland to secede from the UK: it is after all the flag of Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿, one of the constituent nations of the UK 🇬🇧

In the same way, I have no issue with the EU having a flag 🇪🇺 : all the member countries still have, use and are proud of their own flags

The problem with flags is that 'my country right or wrong' is an easy, cosy, comforting message. It gives a sense of belonging that people need.

Unfortunately it also wipes out all space for nuanced thinking. I'd feel more at ease if flags were relegated to the field of international sports only, but that's never going to happen.

@thecatfromjapan Do you think Labour are unpatriotic? How? What does that mean? Are they trying to undermine the U.K.?

Oh god, not at all!! I should disclose I am a Labour Party voter and member who voted for Starmer in the leadership and that I am probably not representative at all as I come NI (though not living there at the minute). These types of flags for me are divisive and menacing and I completely agree with @words broader thoughts on flags. I too like the EU flag though would not put it on display.

For context if I’m asked my identity I’d probably say Northern Irish, but I tick British on forms and don’t really identify with Ireland at all. I was brought up Catholic and would never vote for the Unionist parties (nor Sinn Fein for that matter) and I have an extremely ambivalent view of the forces and am wary of the police, due to my experiences growing up. Reading some of the other posters on here who discuss Ireland you’d think I don’t exist, as I’m a nominally Catholic but not in favour of reunification (though thanks to Brexit my feelings are evolving as I expect is the case for many soft unionists) but things aren’t usually as black and white as they seem...

Where does the line between patriotism and nationalism or xenophobia fall? I don’t know. It just makes me uncomfortable. I think it leads to being unthinkingly uncritical and as we’ve seen in the past that can be dangerous. It’s not me being anti-British/English by the way, a lovely friend is originally from Poland and the way she and her husband talk about Poland makes me feel uncomfortable and the same goes for how one of my dear parents talks about Ireland (and there is nothing extreme about any of them, it’s just uncritical and thinking their favoured country is better than anywhere else).

The reason I said “appear to be patriotic” is because he’s pursuing this deliberate strategy after conducting focus groups. Some consultant has told him to use the flag so that to me seems cynical not genuine and I think that will turn a lot of people off. Whereas waving the flag and looking down on everywhere else is nothing new to the Tories so they seem genuine. Despite the fact they are the ones destroying the country.

Very jumbled - I’m not very good at getting my feelings/thoughts out in words so I’m not sure I’ve articulated this very clearly.

Having grown up in Wales, we were and are very proud of our Welsh Dragon flag. There is a cross of St David, which could have found a place on the Union Jack, but never did. BTW at one time a portrait of the Queen was the preferred way for the Government to show its loyalty. Not this er, rather foreign, flag nationalism. Perhaps it's to rub it in to the Scots. The Tories are rattled about Scotland, make no mistake.

Going back to Foot and Corbyn and the accusations levelled against them about their dress sense - it's a bit rich now when the country has a PM who is a scruff who looks as though he was dragged through a hedge backwards.

As for the Economy and the Tories being sound on it - why oh why? If this Covid-19 doesn't destroy their reputation, what will?

FWIW here's my two cents (or should that be pennies? )

I'm pretty relaxed about flags usually. I don't like to see people damaging them or burning them or doing weird things like changing the colours to give some alternate meaning but generally fairly relaxed. I'd happly apply all those things to any nation's flag, Union flag, Stars and Stripes, Tricolor, Israel's, Palestinian one, whichever.

Generally I think that if a party wants to lead a country its a pretty good idea to express both pride in that country's achievements and hope for its future. If said party chooses instead to display a sea of flags from another country, my reaction is basically "what the actual..." Palestine is a vital cause, I get that, but the Labour party wasn't trying to govern Palestine, it was arguing it was the best to govern Britain.

I'm not keen on plastering the flag all over everything, overseas aid deliveries and vaccine shots being some recent examples but its presence doesn't repel me or immediately make me think of racism or collonialism.

Gaspode:
But it also represents 2 world wars (and a world cup),

No.
If you mean the football world Cup win in 1966, the team that won it was England, not the UK.

Do you not understand what the "union" flag means? (rhetorical question!)

I'm always uncomfortable when I see the world wars and football bracketed together, but maybe that's just me.

I think you have articulated very clearly Miaowse.

If you mean the football world Cup win in 1966, the team that won it was England, not the UK. Exactly

I don't really care about the flag issue, what I want to hear is what Starmer's vison for the UK is, what he thinks, what he believes in, what and who Labour stand for.

LouseCollins 'Generally I think that if a party wants to lead a country its a pretty good idea to express both pride in that country's achievements and hope for its future.'

This is so crucial.

There's so much to say about this that I think if I started, I'd be here all day!

But I think it was a crucial part of the Boden campaign (and the inauguration speech.)

It's a tricky one for Labour.

Relying on focus groups feels like they're struggling to figure out their own identity. The recommendations for waving the flag came from the consultancy firm, not from Labour Party, but apart from concerns about igniting / playing on nationalism, it really feels like that approach is lacking in imagination and inspiration. That, to me, is the more depressing aspect.

They need policy and a stronger communication strategy. Ironically JC and co had many good policies (everyone's on about the need for internet connectivity now), but the delivery was appallingly bad. And JC himself too controversial.

@Violetparis

I don't really care about the flag issue, what I want to hear is what Starmer's vison for the UK is, what he thinks, what he believes in, what and who Labour stand for.

Same here. This is what feels is missing.