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Brexit

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 13:58

An 'interesting' week. To say the least.

It has highlighted the purpose, point and weaknesses of the EU. It has revealled that the Irish Border is an ongoing issue which can not be ignored. Not only is it causing shortages in NI but it also reminds us that a zero covid strategy for the UK can not be managed unilaterally; we are not New Zealand.

It shows up the changing geo-politics of leaving. We have applied to join the Asia-Pacific free trade pact just a day after Macron told us to chose out allies and reminded us that geography and history have always tied our fate to France.

The epic fuck up of the EU has lead a rallying cry of support for leaving... but covid is currently hiding much of the reality of the implications of Brexit which will yet come out in the wash.

Brexit and Covid are tied together as conjoined twins of economic disaster though. Once restrictions start to lift, the shit will start to hit the fan. The efforts on where to aportion blame will start but it won't be on Brexit. We've known this for some time. Brexit no longer is relevant. Except of course it is. But who is writing the winner's narrative? Things are as they have always been. There is no squirrel. The squirrel is thinking that Brexit and Covid are separate things when those in charge don't.

In terms of the vaccine suggest, I think its worth reflecting on why it was successful. Johnson played the vaccine procurement like a gambler, who bet on all the horses in order to ensure we got a winner. Throwing the kitchen sink at a problem which shut the entire economy down was always the safe option. Especially when it was also a pretty certain bet that there would be unequal rollout and a shortage when one was found. If you think about it in those terms, it easier to see how this has been a success for the government: if only one vaccine was successful, we'd be grateful we'd invested in so many options. If all the vaccines came in good we'd end up in a good place. It was a win:win strategy, and one that was not that hard to do. We now find that whilst we were cutting the International Aid Budget we were also working on soft power that excess vaccine stocks and production capability bring... I note here its actually much harder to pull off successfully if you are considerably larger like the EU because of the sheer numbers involved - the dynamics always favoured the UK and I think this probably was something the UK was aware of and was worked into strategic planning. Other things will be much harder to get such easy political wins on - not least because they still involve the economics of geography and that being smaller is typically a weakness not a strength in trading - vaccines and supply shortages are the ultimate exception not the rule. The rule is proven by the EU's politicking and the threat of a vaccine trade war.

Thus the Tory Party have seen Brexit and Covid as being intrinsically linked for some time. I don't think everyone else has quite managed to wrap their head around the fact that its near impossible at this stage to disentangle to two because of this mentality.

This current batch of Tories are disaster capitalists after all, and the twin of Brexit and Covid is a gift to their ambition.

I'll just remind you what the goal really is here. Remember Johnson's speech at the Tory Party Conference in October:
www.conservatives.com/news/boris-johnson-read-the-prime-ministers-keynote-speech-in-full

We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.

They are more often than not the trigger for an acceleration of social and economic change, because we human beings will not simply content ourselves with a repair job.

He is fully signed up to the Cummings/Gove school of thought of burn it down and rebuild afresh.

The idea that he cares about sorting out and repairing the problems Brexit brings, miss the ultimate point: He doesn't want to.

OP posts:
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Clavinova · 09/02/2021 17:09

mrslaughan

How else would you like me to respond to DGRossetti's post at 16:48? I've got other stuff to do now anyway.

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 17:11

@Clavinova

DGRossetti

What have you got against Australia, New Zealand, China, India and America? You sound quite inward-looking.

Nothing per se. But they aren't twenty fucking miles across the sea from England are they ? I'm not going to be able to fly there at 4 hours notice and back again the same day as when I had to visit a client in Frankfurt am I ?

My DGF (DMs side) was born in India and thrilled when Indians started coming here in the 50s and 60s.

My DGM on my DFs side is American (having made a weird journey from there to Italy when everyone else was going the other way ...)

But all the countries you have just listed were perfectly happy with the pre Brexit setup with the UK. And if they had any issues it was solely over visas and allowing their brightest and best to come to the UK.

Personally I'd be thrilled to have more Indians in the UK. I can't get to practice my Hindi enough.

Tell who I'm not so hot on at the moment. And that's the Cornish. Which is why I am unlikely to try Cornish sole, or King Crab.

DW has an uncle who was a Ten Pound Pom with a beautiful house and life in Sydney. And none of them are at all interested in much the UK has to offer anyway.

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 17:12

@Clavinova

mrslaughan

How else would you like me to respond to DGRossetti's post at 16:48? I've got other stuff to do now anyway.

Give us a shout when you pop back in ....
Peregrina · 09/02/2021 17:13

It's funny isn't it, how Germany managed to do trade deals with other countries, despite being in the EU?

Anyone who listens to what Johnson says is a bit of a fool. He's the sort of man who if he told you it was raining you would look outside to check, but then he would say, but it's raining somewhere in the world.

ListeningQuietly · 09/02/2021 17:13

It is absurd that Britain – historically a great free-trading nation – has been unable for 42 years to do a free trade deal with Australia, New Zealand, China, India and America.
Ah yes,
Countries that the UK invaded
tried to kill the inhabitants or get them addicted to opium
and asset stripped for decades
until they demanded independence
Grin

Funny that none of them rushed to sign free outline free trade deals after the vote

  • because of free movement of people
  • because of distance
  • because of economics
  • because no country in its right mind signs a free trade deal with China
DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 17:24

I would say that there are a lot of things that Britain can't do. And absent the impossible (like squaring the circle) almost all of them are because we exist in a state of permanently pisspoor government above any and all other considerations. To the extent that the odd exception - like the NHS vaccine programme are notable. Especially when compared to the shambolic private T&T system that preceded it.

For the amount of money wasted since 2016 on Brexit and crony contracts, the UK could realistically have put a person on the Moon. However, the whole project would floundered when a government minister refused to sign off a project to visit somewhere a soup dragon lives.

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 17:29

Clav can concentrate on posting the good news from far-flung shores of Australia, New Zealand, China, India and America. I'll concentrate on my home country of the UK, if you don't mind.

eastmidlandsbylines.co.uk/small-businesses-in-the-east-midlands-hit-hard-by-brexit-trade-barriers/

Since 1 January 2021, UK industries have been hit with non-tariff barriers at the UK-EU border. The government has brushed these off as ‘teething issues’ but the red tape is here to stay. Although companies and customers may absorb the additional costs, it is an unambiguously bad outcome for small businesses, who are less resilient to trade disruption.

Leicestershire and Rutland European Movement has conducted research into the impacts of Brexit in the local area. The findings reveal some hard truths about the future for small businesses in the region.

The manufacturing industry is heavily dependent on single market access, which enables goods to flow freely across the border. Losing this access means that significant red tape has been imposed with no observable gain for these added administrative costs. Employment in the East Midlands is disproportionately reliant on the manufacturing industry, so the region is expected to be hit by these Brexit impacts more severely than other parts of the country.

...

It is important to remember that this Brexit deal was a choice made by Boris Johnson and his ‘Vote Leave’ government. A less damaging form of Brexit, such as joining EFTA, was always available. Four and a half years after the referendum, we are finally seeing what Brexit means for small businesses in the East Midlands. It’s not the sunny uplands that were promised.

TheElementsSong · 09/02/2021 17:30

Free 🐿 for anybody lurkers who wish to be convinced by C&Pnova's Brexit trade model:

The distance from Great Britain to France is approximately 30 miles.

The distance from ditto to Australia is approximately 10000 miles.

The distance from ditto to the Sun is approximately 93 million miles.

Therefore, trade between the UK and Australia is as quick, easy and effortless as it is between the UK and the EU.

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 17:36

Therefore, trade between the UK and Australia is as quick, easy and effortless as it is between the UK and the EU.

Even if that were the case (which it isn't, we can mute Clav on that one) the next question is how much is that worth to the UK, relative to the EU trade (or what EU trade was before we fucked it) ?

ListeningQuietly · 09/02/2021 17:41

DGRosetti
Pressie for you
wits.worldbank.org/visualization/detailed-country-analysis-visualization.html
play with the tabs on the right

ListeningQuietly · 09/02/2021 17:43

The UK was 2.39% of Australia's imports
Australia was 0.56% of the UK's imports

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 17:48

@ListeningQuietly

DGRosetti Pressie for you wits.worldbank.org/visualization/detailed-country-analysis-visualization.html play with the tabs on the right
Smile

so we export more footwear than fish ?

borntobequiet · 09/02/2021 18:16

I assume the 1,000 apprentices will be young/in their first job

You assume wrong.

The age profile of people starting apprenticeships changed between 2017/18 and 2018/19, with a higher proportion of starts from apprentices over the age of 24.
46% of the apprenticeships started in 2018/19 were by people aged 25. The age group with the largest increase was by those aged between 35 and 44, with 21% more starts than in 2017/18.

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06113/

I teach apprentices. Most are in their 20s and 30s. The oldest person I taught last year was 61. Many are career changers or are on apprenticeship schemes as part of their employers’ training programmes - this is in part because of the introduction of the apprenticeship levy.
A problem in FE is that we can no longer rely on the European Social Fund, which enabled us to run some very valuable training programmes designed to get people the qualifications so they could enrol on apprenticeships. There is no prospect of such funding from the U.K. Government, which has cut FE funding to the bone while hypocritically talking the talk about vocational education and training.

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 19:04

Still new stories popping up ...

www.fnlondon.com/articles/inconceivable-before-brexit-banks-again-plot-job-moves-out-of-london-as-pressure-mounts-20210209

The ink is barely dry on the Brexit deal but the world’s largest investment banks are preparing a second wave of job moves away from the City amid a shake-up of their European operations, can reveal.

(contd)

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 19:14

What is the point of this "story" ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56002176

SabrinaThwaite · 09/02/2021 19:17

[quote DGRossetti]What is the point of this "story" ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56002176[/quote]
Arse covering.

mrslaughan · 09/02/2021 19:23

[quote DGRossetti]What is the point of this "story" ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56002176[/quote]
No - setting up to walk away ......
Framing it as all the nasty EU's faults

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.
ListeningQuietly · 09/02/2021 19:30

No Deal is better than a Bad Deal

oh joy

mrslaughan · 09/02/2021 19:37

Destroying 68% of trade with the away is not enough they have to annihilate it all! Well that maybe Gove abs Frosts plan (abs also the ERG) - but how will the rest feel of the Tory MP's feel? I would imagine they are having some pretty uncomfortable discussions with their constituents?

I saw (shared somewhere) a Daily heil article today about how the ERG still aren't sure about the "deal" - quite an about face given the the "star chamber" gave it its blessing.

mrslaughan · 09/02/2021 19:38

Sorry - I am not sure why autocorrect changed "eu" too "away"

ListeningQuietly · 09/02/2021 19:53

I know its sideways from these threads
and that many regulars on here are on the US threads
but please
watch and understand why proper controls over elected representatives are essential Sad
twitter.com/i/status/1359214434456137728

FrankieStein402 · 09/02/2021 20:18

DGRosetti
www.fnlondon.com/articles/inconceivable-before-brexit-banks-again-plot-job-moves-out-of-london-as-pressure-mounts-20210209

6th March 2016: Boris Johnson on the The Andrew Marr Show

^Andrew: That’s what Goldman Sachs are saying, they have 6,000 employees here and they say because of the passport system if we leave they have no choice but to move to continental headquarters and bank after bank after bank is saying the same thing.

Boris: First of all, I don’t believe that to be true at all. We’ve heard the same sorts of threats time and time again, actually London has such a massive concentration of skills and talent here in this city that I don’t believe there’d be - talk to serious bankers they don’t think.

Andrew: Well, here are two serious bankers for you Boris: Michael Sherwood and Richard Gnodde co-CEOs in Europe for Goldman Sachs say that banks won’t disappear from London overnight but they will overtime if Britain votes no. It would begin with a decline in investment and hiring and London suffers relative to cities such as Frankfurt and Paris. This is their business, they know what they’re talking about.

Boris: Well you know these - by the way - were the people engineered the biggest financial disaster of the last century so - but what I would say is that they are also the same people who said that if we didn’t join the euro then there would be all sorts of economic disasters. They never happened. If you remember Peter Mandelson, the CBI, the bank, they were all saying we have to join the euro or the British economy would be overwhelmed, we’d be isolated, they were wrong then and they are wrong now. And there are people on the other side now, people on both sides who think as John Longworth thinks, as I think, that actually there’s a great and glorious future for this country and what we’re being asked is to basically to take a very pessimistic view of Britain and of our chances, we’re a huge economy we could do well outside -
^

Lastfreakinglegs · 09/02/2021 20:34

Well yes but our disaster capitalists are small fry compared to Klaus Schwab. The totalitarian leader of the Wef.

mrslaughan · 09/02/2021 21:10

I know not Brexit - but we touched in Joanna Cherry's demotion.
I thought this was an interesting account

www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2021/02/joanna-cherry-s-diary-why-i-was-sacked-coming-out-gay-aids-pandemic-and

ListeningQuietly · 09/02/2021 21:18

MrsL
I find identity politics desperately sad
as it makes the left eat itself
and leave the right free rein to trash us all

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