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Brexit

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 13:58

An 'interesting' week. To say the least.

It has highlighted the purpose, point and weaknesses of the EU. It has revealled that the Irish Border is an ongoing issue which can not be ignored. Not only is it causing shortages in NI but it also reminds us that a zero covid strategy for the UK can not be managed unilaterally; we are not New Zealand.

It shows up the changing geo-politics of leaving. We have applied to join the Asia-Pacific free trade pact just a day after Macron told us to chose out allies and reminded us that geography and history have always tied our fate to France.

The epic fuck up of the EU has lead a rallying cry of support for leaving... but covid is currently hiding much of the reality of the implications of Brexit which will yet come out in the wash.

Brexit and Covid are tied together as conjoined twins of economic disaster though. Once restrictions start to lift, the shit will start to hit the fan. The efforts on where to aportion blame will start but it won't be on Brexit. We've known this for some time. Brexit no longer is relevant. Except of course it is. But who is writing the winner's narrative? Things are as they have always been. There is no squirrel. The squirrel is thinking that Brexit and Covid are separate things when those in charge don't.

In terms of the vaccine suggest, I think its worth reflecting on why it was successful. Johnson played the vaccine procurement like a gambler, who bet on all the horses in order to ensure we got a winner. Throwing the kitchen sink at a problem which shut the entire economy down was always the safe option. Especially when it was also a pretty certain bet that there would be unequal rollout and a shortage when one was found. If you think about it in those terms, it easier to see how this has been a success for the government: if only one vaccine was successful, we'd be grateful we'd invested in so many options. If all the vaccines came in good we'd end up in a good place. It was a win:win strategy, and one that was not that hard to do. We now find that whilst we were cutting the International Aid Budget we were also working on soft power that excess vaccine stocks and production capability bring... I note here its actually much harder to pull off successfully if you are considerably larger like the EU because of the sheer numbers involved - the dynamics always favoured the UK and I think this probably was something the UK was aware of and was worked into strategic planning. Other things will be much harder to get such easy political wins on - not least because they still involve the economics of geography and that being smaller is typically a weakness not a strength in trading - vaccines and supply shortages are the ultimate exception not the rule. The rule is proven by the EU's politicking and the threat of a vaccine trade war.

Thus the Tory Party have seen Brexit and Covid as being intrinsically linked for some time. I don't think everyone else has quite managed to wrap their head around the fact that its near impossible at this stage to disentangle to two because of this mentality.

This current batch of Tories are disaster capitalists after all, and the twin of Brexit and Covid is a gift to their ambition.

I'll just remind you what the goal really is here. Remember Johnson's speech at the Tory Party Conference in October:
www.conservatives.com/news/boris-johnson-read-the-prime-ministers-keynote-speech-in-full

We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.

They are more often than not the trigger for an acceleration of social and economic change, because we human beings will not simply content ourselves with a repair job.

He is fully signed up to the Cummings/Gove school of thought of burn it down and rebuild afresh.

The idea that he cares about sorting out and repairing the problems Brexit brings, miss the ultimate point: He doesn't want to.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
29
ListeningQuietly · 09/02/2021 11:51

But
it
was
oven
ready

Bee0808 · 09/02/2021 11:56

Evidently the tories don't know how to turn an oven on....

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 11:56

@Ellie56

Express Brexit POLL: "Should Boris scrap Brexit deal and renegotiate EU rules?" 85% say yes.

Renegotiate the EU rules? Hmm

Do they mean renegotiate the rules for third countries?

The Express' grasp on the real world is tenuous at best. It's readers generally live elsewhere.

But it's an interesting development from a cheerleader that only 6 weeks ago was praising the deal as making the second coming redundant.

However - as I have already started to cogitate. This may be Labours chance to turn their own shit decisions into a positive. having voted for this deal, they now have the moral standing to insist that Boris and his government stick to it because they supported it too.

I wouldn't even give any odds on the EU agreeing to revisit it.

prettybird · 09/02/2021 12:26

Remember that the treaty is still only be applied provisionally: the European Parliament is still to vote on it Confused

prettybird · 09/02/2021 12:27

(I know that the sensible readers on here don't need to be reminded of that but possibly Express and Mail reader do Wink)

Peregrina · 09/02/2021 12:59

I wonder how this Treaty ratification will work in practice? The party which rushed to sign it and pass it into law is the one which is now unhappy and wants to change it. We haven't any evidence that the EU side want changes. Also behind the scenes, what is the new US administrations view of things? I do wonder if they had a quick word with the EU over the vaccine debacle.

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 13:01

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/business/worse-no-deal-how-yorkshire-businesses-are-struggling-new-trade-rules-under-brexit-deal-3126257

More than a month into the new trade deal thrashed out between the UK Government and the EU, The Yorkshire Post can reveal that many firms in the area are being plagued by problems with supplies and some are considering moving operations to the Continent.

(contd)

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 13:10

@Peregrina

I wonder how this Treaty ratification will work in practice? The party which rushed to sign it and pass it into law is the one which is now unhappy and wants to change it. We haven't any evidence that the EU side want changes. Also behind the scenes, what is the new US administrations view of things? I do wonder if they had a quick word with the EU over the vaccine debacle.
I don't think anyone in the EU is unhappy with it. Maybe Ireland could have wanted more, but within the existing constraints they got as much as they could, really.

#1
This is the UKs deal. It's the deal the UK wanted. If the UK wants it changed, it will have to offer something in exchange.

And there's the permarub. If the UK wants, the UK can pay. It will be up to the UK to decide what (if anything) to offer, and what it wants in return.

GOTO #1

Most of these issues would melt away were the UK to enter some sort of customs union with the EU, of course.

Ellie56 · 09/02/2021 13:17

Most of these issues would melt away were the UK to enter some sort of customs union with the EU, of course.

Quite. Not sure our illustrious "leader" and the rest of his shit shower actually have the intellectual ability to work that out...

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 13:27

@Ellie56

Most of these issues would melt away were the UK to enter some sort of customs union with the EU, of course.

Quite. Not sure our illustrious "leader" and the rest of his shit shower actually have the intellectual ability to work that out...

Of course they know it. But having sold their soul to the ERG, they can't actually do it.

Throw in the single market, and pretty much everything resolves overnight.

Clavinova · 09/02/2021 13:28

ListeningQuietly
Can we agree that their business is as dead as a Norwegian Blue?

Certainly not;

GT Seafoods, Peterhead
Mon 25/1 - Fri 29/1/21
Good landings of fish this week on Peterhead fish market with a total of 19,458 boxes been landed.
Even with the affect of Covid prices were stable for most species. Exports are getting through to Boulogne next day delivery [albeit] in the afternoon..

DrBlackbird

You are not in favour of Scottish independence then? Think of the paperwork involved.

To what extent Brexit paperwork can be streamlined I don't know - many of the seafood exporters in Scotland already export to far flung places outside of the EU (a photo was posted yesterday of Scottish langoustines at a fish counter in Hong Kong) - extra paperwork obviously didn't get in their way.

There is certainly some exaggeration going on in the media/on twitter, e.g. companies that have to navigate their way through a new alphabet soup of forms, from the dreaded EORI - the online application for an EORI number says to allow 5-10 minutes to complete the form.

Everything is being blamed on Brexit - and yet, quite clearly, coronavirus has had a massive impact on the seafood industry. One of the more vocal exporters is interviewed regularly:

April 2020 - Loch Fyne Langoustines and Loch Fyne Seafarms -
currently paying his staff 80% of their salary, under the coronavirus retention scheme, which he can claim back from the government. But he lost 44% of sales to Hong Kong and China when Covid-19 first hit there, and has been losing money since January. ...

www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/10/scottish-fishermen-turn-to-food-banks-as-covid-19-devastates-industry

September - Loch Fyne Langoustines which has three boats catching langoustines, razor clams and king scallops in Tarbert Lochfyne. He received fisheries hardship funding and funding towards the costs of his processing factory through the Seafood Resilience Fund

Because we export into China, Hong Kong and Singapore, just before Chinese New Year, our markets crashed overnight. We completely lost far east sales but then by 23 March the pandemic had reached Europe and the UK and we had to close our operations for six weeks.

When we reopened we actually found that while we’d lost sales in the far east there was an increase in demand from fishmongers in the UK because everyone was looking to buy local, and we increased our fishmonger trade by about 20%. Over the period we also started a home delivery service on the website where people can do an online shop which has been relatively popular.

The biggest loss since March has been sales to wholesalers and restaurants...

blogs.gov.scot/marine-scotland/2020/09/05/food-and-drink-fortnight-focus-on-fishermen-working-during-coronavirus/

I agree with the government that market demand is reduced because of coronavirus.

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 13:35

Can fishermen game the market ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-55996938

Fishermen are to rename two of their biggest exports in a bid to attract British consumers after post-Brexit difficulties selling to the EU.

Megrim sole is to be sold as Cornish sole, with spider crab being rebranded as Cornish King crab.

(contd)

Personally I'm not sure I'd try either. Which is a shame since you can't be Italian (of even half Italian) without a deep appreciation of the bounty of the seas.

And before the start messing around there, where have my John West Irish wood smoked mackerel fillets disappeared to ? Not the chilli ones. Not the peppered ones. Not the "smokehouse sauce" ones.

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.
DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 13:37

I see that Megrim sole is also called "Whiff". Which is not only delightful, but takes the curse of having "Cornish" in the name ....

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 13:40

www.thefishsociety.co.uk/fishopedia/megrim-sole

ListeningQuietly · 09/02/2021 13:41

If GT Seafoods are driving from Peterhead to get to Boulogne in less than 24 hours
they are breaking the Tachograph rules
possibly not the cleverest thing to post on Twitter

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 13:44

@ListeningQuietly

If GT Seafoods are driving from Peterhead to get to Boulogne in less than 24 hours they are breaking the Tachograph rules possibly not the cleverest thing to post on Twitter
Don't we get to set tacho rules now ?
Clavinova · 09/02/2021 14:04

Peregrina

I don't know why you keep referring to one ambiguous comment from Daniel Hannan (2015) - you have misquoted him for a start.
notimagain has got his name wrong - she called him Mr Hannah four times - which just goes to show that he is less well known than Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, David Cameron and George Osborne - who all made it perfectly clear in the run up to the referendum that a Yes vote meant leaving the single market.

support for the Single Market was part of the 2015 Tory Manifesto. This won them their majority

2017 -
BMG Research Poll: Two-thirds of people don’t read political manifestos -

www.bmgresearch.co.uk/bmg-research-poll-10-people-dont-know-manifesto/

TheElementsSong · 09/02/2021 14:14

🐿 The Nobel physicist Richard Feynman once spent most of an evening puzzling over why spaghetti almost always breaks into at least 3 pieces (not 2) when you bend it. Also, a kitchen littered with broken pasta. Feynman’s question didn’t get answered until 2005, when French physicists worked out that the initial snap triggers a wave of force that causes a further fracture.

However, this being an scientific question involving Italian food and solved by French people, it must somehow be incorrect because only Brexitannia can be the answer to anything. 🐿

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 14:20

The Nobel physicist Richard Feynman once spent most of an evening puzzling over why spaghetti almost always breaks into at least 3 pieces (not 2) when you bend it.

Been at the Monkey Cage again ?

"The Challenger" is well worth catching if it gets reshown.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00zstkn

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 14:23

I think what Clav is getting at is that people who voted for Brexit hadn't a fucking clue what they were voting for.

Or so I understand.

TheElementsSong · 09/02/2021 14:32

Been at the Monkey Cage again?

I am indeed a loyal Monkey! Grin I did actually already know about the Feynman spaghetti experiment, but listening to last week's episode jogged my memory.

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 14:46

Interesting court case just decided. You have to get to the end to know why I posted it ...

www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/burn-it-city-solicitor-faces-contempt-hearing-over-destroyed-evidence/5107345.article

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2021/145.html

Raymond John McKeeve, formerly a partner with City firm Jones Day, has admitted sending instructions to his clients’ IT manager to ‘burn it’ within minutes of being notified that an order for search of premises had been made against those clients.

In the High Court last year, Mr Justice Marcus Smith refused permission to Ocado to apply to commit McKeeve for contempt of court. Following a challenge in the Court of Appeal, Lord Justice Davis said in Ocado Group PLC & Anr v McKeeve, that decision was ‘plainly wrong’.

The appeal judge added: ‘Such a conclusion would seem to set at a premium, where litigation is under way, the deliberate and irretrievable destruction of documents so that it is then asserted that no one can say for sure what they contained. No court can or should readily countenance that.'

The solicitor said he wanted to get rid of the messaging system, most of which contained material not relevant to the underlying case, because of references to his wife, the former Brexit Party MEP Belinda de Lucy.

A recent Belinda tweet says: The organisation 'Stop Funding Hate,' don't worry me at all. Swivelled eyed, witch hunting puritans on a constant purge end up eating their own side pretty quickly. History is littered with such groups, they never last long.

Peregrina · 09/02/2021 15:00

I don't know why you keep referring to one ambiguous comment from Daniel Hannan (2015) - you have misquoted him for a start.

I don't know why Clavinova doesn't realise that the man opined on this matter more than once. My quote came from his Newsnight broadcast on the night after the Referendum. Nor does the fact that people don't read Manifestos alter the fact that the Tory party said it stood for supporting the Single Market back in 2015.

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 15:47

Yet another bad news story.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55997641

The boss of one of Britain's big retailers says Brexit has turned out to be "considerably worse" than he feared.

Peter Cowgill, chairman of JD Sports, said the red tape and delays in shipping goods to mainland Europe meant "double-digit millions" in extra costs.

He told the BBC the company might open a distribution centre overseas to help mitigate the problems, and that would mean job losses in the UK.

(contd)

The very real danger for Boris now, is that enough businesses gang up and say Look dumbo, We gave you a chance. We were patient. We let you pump your propaganda. We didn't contradict you. We let you get on with it. (No doubt as you pressured us to do so behind closed doors). But this is intolerable and we're going to all get together and tear you a new one.

Clavinova · 09/02/2021 15:58

Peregrina
My quote came from his Newsnight broadcast on the night after the Referendum

A bit late then - we had already voted. Clip of the Newsnight interview here - what were you quoting? He only appears to be talking about movement of people.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36628894

9 May 2016 - Daniel Hannan explains what he means by single market -

Whether by accident or by design, the authors of the EU’s single market gave it a misleading title. What most people understand by the words “single market” is a free trade area – a zone within which goods, and possibly services, can circulate without barriers. But that isn’t what the EU’s single market is. The EU’s single market is a single regulatory regime. Membership of it doesn’t mean that you can sell your products into it: pretty much the whole world can do that. Membership means, rather, that you accept a common set of technical standards, and that you submit yourself to the ultimate jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.

capx.co/remain-campaign-is-misleading-voters-on-the-single-market/

Nor does the fact that people don't read Manifestos alter the fact that the Tory party said it stood for supporting the Single Market back in 2015.

Those who voted in 2015 had another chance to vote in 2016 - after David Cameron's other promise - to deliver a ‘reformed EU’ - fell short.

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