Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 13:58

An 'interesting' week. To say the least.

It has highlighted the purpose, point and weaknesses of the EU. It has revealled that the Irish Border is an ongoing issue which can not be ignored. Not only is it causing shortages in NI but it also reminds us that a zero covid strategy for the UK can not be managed unilaterally; we are not New Zealand.

It shows up the changing geo-politics of leaving. We have applied to join the Asia-Pacific free trade pact just a day after Macron told us to chose out allies and reminded us that geography and history have always tied our fate to France.

The epic fuck up of the EU has lead a rallying cry of support for leaving... but covid is currently hiding much of the reality of the implications of Brexit which will yet come out in the wash.

Brexit and Covid are tied together as conjoined twins of economic disaster though. Once restrictions start to lift, the shit will start to hit the fan. The efforts on where to aportion blame will start but it won't be on Brexit. We've known this for some time. Brexit no longer is relevant. Except of course it is. But who is writing the winner's narrative? Things are as they have always been. There is no squirrel. The squirrel is thinking that Brexit and Covid are separate things when those in charge don't.

In terms of the vaccine suggest, I think its worth reflecting on why it was successful. Johnson played the vaccine procurement like a gambler, who bet on all the horses in order to ensure we got a winner. Throwing the kitchen sink at a problem which shut the entire economy down was always the safe option. Especially when it was also a pretty certain bet that there would be unequal rollout and a shortage when one was found. If you think about it in those terms, it easier to see how this has been a success for the government: if only one vaccine was successful, we'd be grateful we'd invested in so many options. If all the vaccines came in good we'd end up in a good place. It was a win:win strategy, and one that was not that hard to do. We now find that whilst we were cutting the International Aid Budget we were also working on soft power that excess vaccine stocks and production capability bring... I note here its actually much harder to pull off successfully if you are considerably larger like the EU because of the sheer numbers involved - the dynamics always favoured the UK and I think this probably was something the UK was aware of and was worked into strategic planning. Other things will be much harder to get such easy political wins on - not least because they still involve the economics of geography and that being smaller is typically a weakness not a strength in trading - vaccines and supply shortages are the ultimate exception not the rule. The rule is proven by the EU's politicking and the threat of a vaccine trade war.

Thus the Tory Party have seen Brexit and Covid as being intrinsically linked for some time. I don't think everyone else has quite managed to wrap their head around the fact that its near impossible at this stage to disentangle to two because of this mentality.

This current batch of Tories are disaster capitalists after all, and the twin of Brexit and Covid is a gift to their ambition.

I'll just remind you what the goal really is here. Remember Johnson's speech at the Tory Party Conference in October:
www.conservatives.com/news/boris-johnson-read-the-prime-ministers-keynote-speech-in-full

We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.

They are more often than not the trigger for an acceleration of social and economic change, because we human beings will not simply content ourselves with a repair job.

He is fully signed up to the Cummings/Gove school of thought of burn it down and rebuild afresh.

The idea that he cares about sorting out and repairing the problems Brexit brings, miss the ultimate point: He doesn't want to.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
29
Clavinova · 08/02/2021 20:00

ListeningQuietly
Where did I say that?

Here;
Its about Scottish fishermen landing their catch in Boulogne
so that it can be collected and distributed.
Its about cutting the UK out of the trade

My implication was that Scottish fishermen were giving themselves the option of doing that

You were shouting in bold type - not implying.

How are they getting to Boulogne - as the ferry port there closed long ago.

Seafood Sourcing buys from all the main Scottish ports; Shetland, Lochinver, Mallaig, Fraserburgh, Kinlochbervie and predominantly from the main and largest European fishing port–Peterhead.
The catch processing facility is in Fraserburgh, where a quantity of the daily purchases are hand filleted by our highly skilled team. Once ready, the fish is transported in modern refrigerated lorries and delivered to Boulogne Sur Mer within 12 hours, ensuring that all connections to surrounding areas are met.

www.seafoodsourcing.co.uk/

Ellie56 · 08/02/2021 20:08

"This is not teething problems, these are issues that we need to sit down with the government, and they need to sit down with the EU Commission, and sort these things out.” Hmm

Good luck to them getting the government to sort out the international treaty that they negotiated and signed up to.

ListeningQuietly · 08/02/2021 20:33

Ah yes
www.seafoodsourcing.co.uk/
Drive from Scotland to Dover
On the Ferry from Dover to Calais
Drive from Calais to Boulogne
(their map is very pretty)
Its just that 12 hours bit is clearly bullshit now (in fact they have not updated their website in 2021)

FrankieStein402 · 08/02/2021 20:37

Chortle, clav not quite getting it. They were not landing in Boulogne, no-one said they were, it went by road. However the scots are looking at landing directly in Boulogne, which removes the UK from the loop - all those who took a margin in the UK will lose it. #BrexitBonus

and of course the swedes are not having any issues exporting to the UK - we've not yet implemented the additional import checks for the EU 27 - hence the concern about non-Europeans bitching to the WTO about being discriminated against.

Clavinova · 08/02/2021 20:55

FrankieStein402
They were not landing in Boulogne, no-one said they were, it went by road.

ListeningQuietly
It's about Scottish fishermen landing their catch in Boulogne.

Clavinova
Seems unlikely to me - I thought they landed their catch in Scotland - then transported by lorry/ferry/tunnel.

ListeningQuietly
They were landing catch in Denmark .....
if Boulogne is an option they will take it

FrankieStein402
However the scots are looking at landing directly in Boulogne

Really? Seems a long way by boat.

ListeningQuietly · 08/02/2021 21:26

Peterhead to Aalborg = 499 NM
Peterhead to Boulogne = 439 NM
just saying Wink
sea-distances.org/

Clavinova · 08/02/2021 21:51

Peterhead to Aalborg = 499 NM
Peterhead to Boulogne = 439 NM
just saying

And it was reported that the round trip to Denmark was 72 hours by boat. Five to ten Scottish boats undertook the trip - only one boat last week. Admittedly they appear to have made quite a lot of money out of the journey.

ListeningQuietly · 08/02/2021 21:56

Clav
So can we agree that the Scottish fishermen will not be using Boulogne as a way to get around Brexit?
Can we agree that their business is as dead as a Norwegian Blue ?

DrBlackbird · 08/02/2021 23:18

Oh for god's sake Clav. Are you really trying to justify or defend the effing hoops that Scottish fisherman are now going through just to try and sell their catch?

Are you at least willing to admit that they would not have to do any of this but for Brexit?! And that for them, at least, Brexit has brought bureaucratic rules and barriers that are costing them time and money?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Jason118 · 08/02/2021 23:31

No, Clav is still giving it a good go with the Brasso.

TheElementsSong · 09/02/2021 08:46

I think this is the:

  • A thing which can be rendered not quite as bad as [the worst things in the world] by dint of vast effort, therefore Brexit is wonderful 🐿
HannibalHayes · 09/02/2021 08:54

More signs of the con,

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.
HannibalHayes · 09/02/2021 08:55

And the real reason why business didn't speak up about it.

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.
HannibalHayes · 09/02/2021 09:14

NickFlag of United KingdomFlag of European Union
@nicktolhurst
+UPDATE+

“Senior UK govt ministers” have contacted both the EU commission and EU member states about renegotiating the EU-UK trade deal agreed 6 weeks ago at Christmas.

The term being used by UK govt in communications with the EU is “refinements”.

However UK is essentially requesting the EU (& it’s member states) to reopen the treaty for renegotiation.

EU Member states have been careful not to comment on this publicly.

Understood that the UK govt has a “shopping list” of items that they are requesting “refinements” to in the EU-UK Treaty.

These include, but are not limited to, Northern Ireland & the fishing industry.

EU understood to have “already rejected” a plea by the UK govt for “a 2 year extension to the ‘Grace Period’ for Northern Ireland” in communications with UK govt representatives.

One might almost be tempted to think that this whole Brexit idea wasn't properly thought through...

Peregrina · 09/02/2021 09:22

I think for me, it's not people who voted Leave in 2016 who were conned - it was genuinely all to play for. "No ones talking of leaving the Single Market" said Hannan, (which Clavinova can deny, but he did say it) and support for the Single Market was part of the 2015 Tory Manifesto. This won them their majority, whatever opinions Clavinova will choose to remind us that other prominent Leavers may have spouted.

However, by the 2019 it was fully known what sort of Brexit Johnson was after. It was furthermore known that he'd tried to illegally prorogue Parliament, and had withdrawn the whip from Remain voting Tory MPs. Even though he did restore it before the election, most of them decided they'd had enough and then stood down. Constituency parties, like Dominic Grieve's were infested with rabid right wingers and were only going to select a true BeLeaver as a candidate. So with all that going on, the electorate knew exactly what they were voting for in 2019 and they said, righto, that's good enough. So they are the ones who need to suck it up and make the best of it. Since Cornwall voted solidly Tory in 2019 I don't think any Cornish fisherman has much of a leg to stand on - if they personally didn't vote Tory, an awful lot of their mates must have done.As for fishermen in Bridlington - they also have a Tory MP with a comfortable majority so the same applies.

TatianaBis · 09/02/2021 09:42

The vaccine strategy was Kate Bingham + her committee + the NHS.

The key to its success is that it didn’t involve the government.

Kate assembled a committee of experts from science, logistics, business and pharmaceutical companies. They drew up a shortlist of 23 vaccines with 4 different technologies and made final decision within 2 weeks.

The UK placed orders for 367 million doses at cost of around £3billion.

Then it was rolled out by the NHS.

Nothing to do with the government who can’t organise a piss up in brewery and in stark contrast to test and trace debacle.

notimagain · 09/02/2021 10:04

""No ones talking of leaving the Single Market" said Hannan, (which Clavinova can deny, but he did say it)"

I think anybody thinking about denying the picture Mr Hannah was trying to paint in the run up to the referendum needs to look at this Channel 4 interview, from 2015, from about 55 seconds onwards..

Mr Hannah kicks off with "Absolutely nobody is suggesting we would give up our position in the free market".

Before the inevitable C&Ps from dictionaries various are posted, trying to highlight the differences between the words "Free" vs. "Single" it's worth letting the interview run because shortly thereafter Mr Hannah suggests that the UK could easily have a Swiss or Channel Islands type deal which would allow free movement of goods, services and capital.

Fundamentally, regardless of "free" or "single" market before the referendum Mr Hannah sure as heck didn't go on UK TV and mention the possibility of customs checks and restrictions on goods or even hint that such would be acceptable.

I wonder if he really believed his own words in 2015 or behind his back he had his fingers crossed and walked off after the interview thinking "well that's another few suckers conned"....

Peregrina · 09/02/2021 10:22

I think that some of them really did think that we could have our cake and eat it - we'd spent 40 years whining for special deals and got them.

Some no, the hard right: they want to see any suggestion of a welfare state or a socially democratic one smashed. People like Andrea Leadsome was very vocal I recall about wanting to withdraw immediately without a deal. She is now very quiet - we haven't heard a peep from her.

I don't doubt that Clavinova would want to remind us that Corbyn was of the withdraw immediately persuasion, but he wasn't in Government.

SabrinaThwaite · 09/02/2021 10:26

The endless post Brexit negotiations have begun. It’s going to be a long, long decade.

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 10:39

@HannibalHayes

More signs of the con,
Being faux regretful now is not going to make peace with those people who had their childrens futures fucked up for Brexit is it ?
DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 10:44

Let's see how Labour fit that into a flag.

Since they also voted for the deal, they can now hold the Tories to it. Maybe that was the plan

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.
ListeningQuietly · 09/02/2021 11:12

@SabrinaThwaite

The endless post Brexit negotiations have begun. It’s going to be a long, long decade.
Absolutely.

But while the haggling goes on
UK Fishing
UK agriculture
UK manufacturing
UK science collaboration
UK horse racing and breeding
UK music and arts

will all be trashed

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 11:20

Express already trashing Boris deal. - 6 weeks in. Is this a record ?

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1395302/brexit-news-northern-ireland-protocol-brexit-rules-EU-michael-gove-article-16-boris-johnso

It isn't going to happen is it ? This is the deal Boris tied the UK to and threw into the world harbour like a lead weight around our feet.

DGRossetti · 09/02/2021 11:42

Warning that affordable childcare system could be victim of post-Brexit arrangements

www.ft.com/content/edab73d0-8c3e-4c94-80f3-09afd302fd0f

The UK's au pair childcare programme is at risk of disappearing as a result of new post-Brexit immigration rules, the industry trade association has warned.

An estimated 45,000 families in the UK, including many key workers such as doctors, nurses and police, rely on the longstanding au pair cultural exchange programme for affordable childcare.

But with the end of EU free movement this year, au pairs have been categorised as "skilled workers" under the UK's points-based immigration system alongside nannies and childcare workers, with new entrants needing to earn a minimum salary of £20,480 a year.

(contd)

Ellie56 · 09/02/2021 11:47

Express Brexit POLL: "Should Boris scrap Brexit deal and renegotiate EU rules?" 85% say yes.

Renegotiate the EU rules? Hmm

Do they mean renegotiate the rules for third countries?

Swipe left for the next trending thread