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Brexit

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 13:58

An 'interesting' week. To say the least.

It has highlighted the purpose, point and weaknesses of the EU. It has revealled that the Irish Border is an ongoing issue which can not be ignored. Not only is it causing shortages in NI but it also reminds us that a zero covid strategy for the UK can not be managed unilaterally; we are not New Zealand.

It shows up the changing geo-politics of leaving. We have applied to join the Asia-Pacific free trade pact just a day after Macron told us to chose out allies and reminded us that geography and history have always tied our fate to France.

The epic fuck up of the EU has lead a rallying cry of support for leaving... but covid is currently hiding much of the reality of the implications of Brexit which will yet come out in the wash.

Brexit and Covid are tied together as conjoined twins of economic disaster though. Once restrictions start to lift, the shit will start to hit the fan. The efforts on where to aportion blame will start but it won't be on Brexit. We've known this for some time. Brexit no longer is relevant. Except of course it is. But who is writing the winner's narrative? Things are as they have always been. There is no squirrel. The squirrel is thinking that Brexit and Covid are separate things when those in charge don't.

In terms of the vaccine suggest, I think its worth reflecting on why it was successful. Johnson played the vaccine procurement like a gambler, who bet on all the horses in order to ensure we got a winner. Throwing the kitchen sink at a problem which shut the entire economy down was always the safe option. Especially when it was also a pretty certain bet that there would be unequal rollout and a shortage when one was found. If you think about it in those terms, it easier to see how this has been a success for the government: if only one vaccine was successful, we'd be grateful we'd invested in so many options. If all the vaccines came in good we'd end up in a good place. It was a win:win strategy, and one that was not that hard to do. We now find that whilst we were cutting the International Aid Budget we were also working on soft power that excess vaccine stocks and production capability bring... I note here its actually much harder to pull off successfully if you are considerably larger like the EU because of the sheer numbers involved - the dynamics always favoured the UK and I think this probably was something the UK was aware of and was worked into strategic planning. Other things will be much harder to get such easy political wins on - not least because they still involve the economics of geography and that being smaller is typically a weakness not a strength in trading - vaccines and supply shortages are the ultimate exception not the rule. The rule is proven by the EU's politicking and the threat of a vaccine trade war.

Thus the Tory Party have seen Brexit and Covid as being intrinsically linked for some time. I don't think everyone else has quite managed to wrap their head around the fact that its near impossible at this stage to disentangle to two because of this mentality.

This current batch of Tories are disaster capitalists after all, and the twin of Brexit and Covid is a gift to their ambition.

I'll just remind you what the goal really is here. Remember Johnson's speech at the Tory Party Conference in October:
www.conservatives.com/news/boris-johnson-read-the-prime-ministers-keynote-speech-in-full

We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.

They are more often than not the trigger for an acceleration of social and economic change, because we human beings will not simply content ourselves with a repair job.

He is fully signed up to the Cummings/Gove school of thought of burn it down and rebuild afresh.

The idea that he cares about sorting out and repairing the problems Brexit brings, miss the ultimate point: He doesn't want to.

OP posts:
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DGRossetti · 08/02/2021 17:08

@mrslaughan

Well the farmers around here weren't (Hertfordshire) spoke to several - who were getting all there info from local farming grouos and they all though it was the best thing..... none could articulate why (with joined up thinking)
There was a bit of a reverse ferret from farmers long before fisherfolk. Certainly in these threads.

At the end of the day, what does it matter ? If farming folk didn't vote for Brexit, then all the people that live in their tight knit community must have. So nice neighbours, eh ? We know the vote by constituency, remember.

ListeningQuietly · 08/02/2021 17:11

@Clavinova

ListeningQuietly It's about Scottish fishermen landing their catch in Boulogne

Seems unlikely to me - I thought they landed their catch in Scotland - then transported by lorry/ferry/tunnel.

They were landing catch in Denmark ..... if Boulogne is an option they will take it and there are no ferries in Boulogne
Peregrina · 08/02/2021 17:13

Seafood Scotland has appointed a France-based expert to help Scottish seafood companies untangle the administrative issues which have plagued the industry since the UK left the EU. Taylor Calon will provide on-site support to lorry drivers at Bolougne-sur-Mer.

I.e. We have now incurred an extra overhead, which will have to be covered and which wasn't necessary 6 weeks ago. It's not exactly something to boast about. Easiest deals in history, we hold all the cards.

DGRossetti · 08/02/2021 17:23

@Peregrina

Seafood Scotland has appointed a France-based expert to help Scottish seafood companies untangle the administrative issues which have plagued the industry since the UK left the EU. Taylor Calon will provide on-site support to lorry drivers at Bolougne-sur-Mer.

I.e. We have now incurred an extra overhead, which will have to be covered and which wasn't necessary 6 weeks ago. It's not exactly something to boast about. Easiest deals in history, we hold all the cards.

It is quite amusing to read the odd Brexiteer a little confused as to why the shops aren't flooded with cheap lobsters.

I really need to punctuate my posts better ...

Peregrina · 08/02/2021 17:29

"We have had no impacts from Brexit thankfully," said Benjamin Hubert, creative director of Layer. "We have had a big hiring push in the last few months and as yet that has not been hindered by Brexit."

Which meant in practice that UK citizens hired before the UK left the EU, and before the transition period ended will have existing contracts honoured. But new UK employees will either need a dual citizenship or already have residence rights in the country. So just wait chum.

Clavinova · 08/02/2021 17:37

They were landing catch in Denmark...
if Boulogne is an option they will take it

They talk about Peterhead fish auction here;

14 Jan - you look at what you can get for it in Peterhead, and what you can get over in Hanstholm.

thefishingdaily.com/featured-news/brexit-chaos-forces-scottish-fishing-vessels-to-danish-port-of-hanstholm/

DGRossetti · 08/02/2021 17:39

Am I alone in not quite seeing what Clav is getting at ?

Clavinova · 08/02/2021 17:43

The French market is "very valuable to us," says Graeme Tallis, who set up the company based near Peterhead on Scotland's east coast in 2003.

The UK's biggest fishing port has been bearing the brunt of post-Brexit red-tape problems, with reports of blocked exports and collapsed prices. since Britain left the EU's trading structures when the transition period ended on January 1.

"If a truck has produce for multiple customers and one supplier gets the paperwork wrong, the whole lot gets stuck for ages until the problem is resolved, he says.

"We were thinking out of the box early on," he adds, explaining that GT Seafoods set up its own company in Boulogne so that they could "export to ourselves" and avoid the danger of trucks becoming tied up for 2-3 days.

As for the problems at the home port of Peterhead, Tallis says prices have dipped for some species, but not all. "Cod, for example, is still fetching a healthy price,"

The pandemic and other factors unrelated to Brexit are also affecting the market, he explains, adding that boats often land in Denmark at this time of year.

"The fishing weather has been good in January this year so boats have been catching a lot of fish whereas is previous years some don’t even make it out of port!"

www.euronews.com/2021/01/12/one-scottish-fish-exporter-s-story-we-will-come-through-this-but-it-will-take-some-time

Peregrina · 08/02/2021 17:45

Local farmers to me were vocal about supporting Leave. Now facing a double whammy of losing land to housing. For Oxford overspill, which in practice is London overspill. Which does have something of an advantage because the people moving out of London don't know that they have to touch their forelocks to the local gentry and vote Tory. Some clouds have silver linings.

DGRossetti · 08/02/2021 17:46

One thing I have notices is the (presumably) rebuttal stories are becoming slightly staler by the day. The last one is nearly a month old.

Whereas it's a new bad news story (or two) every day.

Which suggests you don't really need to read the stories to work what's happening. Even a Brexiteer could get it.

DGRossetti · 08/02/2021 17:48

@Peregrina

Local farmers to me were vocal about supporting Leave. Now facing a double whammy of losing land to housing. For Oxford overspill, which in practice is London overspill. Which does have something of an advantage because the people moving out of London don't know that they have to touch their forelocks to the local gentry and vote Tory. Some clouds have silver linings.
A friend lives under the flightpath of London Oxford airport.

Yes, really.

I think he's quite happy that it's bumped the value of his house up a lot.

ListeningQuietly · 08/02/2021 17:59

"We were thinking out of the box early on," he adds, explaining that GT Seafoods set up its own company in Boulogne so that they could "export to ourselves" and avoid the danger of trucks becoming tied up for 2-3 days.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Oh bless

DGRossetti · 08/02/2021 18:05

[quote ListeningQuietly]This might help
thefishingdaily.com/latest-news/uk-government-ignoring-growing-crisis-in-seafood-industry/[/quote]
...
“This is not teething problems, these are issues that we need to sit down with the government, and they need to sit down with the EU Commission, and sort these things out.”
...

Not quite sure how that works. The UK signed up to a treaty (and we'll park the unratified status for now ....) and that treaty is now in place. What will "sitting down" achieve ? You either follow the treaty as agreed. Or you don't.

And I am suspecting that there will be a lot of the UK government not sitting down with the EU, since that would really only serve to underscore that it's their fault. Much better to snipe in the Express so people like Clav can flood forums with faux cheer.

TheElementsSong · 08/02/2021 18:16

@DGRossetti

Am I alone in not quite seeing what Clav is getting at ?
It's all wordclouds of obfuscation.
prettybird · 08/02/2021 18:18

@DGRossetti

Am I alone in not quite seeing what Clav is getting at ?
I wouldn't know: I don't read his or her posts Wink
TartrazineCustard · 08/02/2021 18:29

@ListeningQuietly

"We were thinking out of the box early on," he adds, explaining that GT Seafoods set up its own company in Boulogne so that they could "export to ourselves" and avoid the danger of trucks becoming tied up for 2-3 days. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Oh bless
You laugh, but I had a friend's husband (remain voter, but doesn't really pay attention to politics or business so quickly became a "Oh, let's just get on with it and leave already" type) sit at my table last summer, drinking my wine and earnestly explaining to me that Brexit would be fine because he talked to a farmer in Shropshire who'd bought some farmland in Spain to make sure Brexit food import/export worked.

I think quite a few Britons have believed they could just ship to themselves to avoid Brexit customs.

ListeningQuietly · 08/02/2021 18:55

I think quite a few Britons have believed they could just ship to themselves to avoid Brexit customs.
Project fear innit Grin

Clavinova · 08/02/2021 18:56

prettybird
I wouldn't know: I don't read his or her posts

Her.

ListeningQuietly
This might help

Unfortunately not - you still haven't linked to anything to back up your point - that Scottish fishermen usually land their catch in Boulogne.

DGRossetti · 08/02/2021 19:07

his or her posts

isn't this what the wonderful English "their" was invented for ?

Their (or her) posts

Grin and apologies to James Acaster.

Speaking of English as she is spoke, I was amused to hear David Mitchell make the case for a return to "thee" and "thou" on WILTY last week ...

ListeningQuietly · 08/02/2021 19:10

Unfortunately not - you still haven't linked to anything to back up your point - that Scottish fishermen usually land their catch in Boulogne.
Where did I say that?

My implication was that Scottish fishermen were giving themselves the option of doing that
as

  • there are no ferries to Boulogne
  • owning a company in Boulogne would not magic away the international border
BlackeyedSusan · 08/02/2021 19:37

[quote Clavinova]this is a blow to beekeepers all over Britain as Italian bees are preferred

Clearly some disagreement on this topic:

Importation of Bees
The British Beekeepers Association discourage the importation of queen bees and colonies from outside the UK. Also bee importations are banned into the Isle of Man.

www.bbka.org.uk/pages/category/should-i-keep-bees/tag/should-i-keep-bees

A colony of BeeLeavers in Scotland. Grin

2017 A leading biologist says Scotland's native honey bees are being threatened by imports brought in because of the hobby's growing popularity.

A new group, the Scottish Native Honey Bee Society, has been formed to help protect the indigenous species.

It aims to convince more keepers to convert their colonies to native bees.

The imported bees are more readily available but carry a greater risk of bringing in disease from the Varroa mite.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39456644[/quote]
Because you're a bee leaver?

ListeningQuietly · 08/02/2021 19:40

Micky Dolenz says Hi

mrslaughan · 08/02/2021 19:54

The varroa mite is endemic in the bee population here ......

redcandlelight · 08/02/2021 20:00

@mrslaughan

The varroa mite is endemic in the bee population here ......
I wanted to say that the varroa mite is a lot like corona. it's everywhere already. no point in not importing other bees on those grounds.

(daughter of a beekeeper who had to do the mite count for the yearly vet check up of the bee hive 30 or so years ago)