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Brexit

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 13:58

An 'interesting' week. To say the least.

It has highlighted the purpose, point and weaknesses of the EU. It has revealled that the Irish Border is an ongoing issue which can not be ignored. Not only is it causing shortages in NI but it also reminds us that a zero covid strategy for the UK can not be managed unilaterally; we are not New Zealand.

It shows up the changing geo-politics of leaving. We have applied to join the Asia-Pacific free trade pact just a day after Macron told us to chose out allies and reminded us that geography and history have always tied our fate to France.

The epic fuck up of the EU has lead a rallying cry of support for leaving... but covid is currently hiding much of the reality of the implications of Brexit which will yet come out in the wash.

Brexit and Covid are tied together as conjoined twins of economic disaster though. Once restrictions start to lift, the shit will start to hit the fan. The efforts on where to aportion blame will start but it won't be on Brexit. We've known this for some time. Brexit no longer is relevant. Except of course it is. But who is writing the winner's narrative? Things are as they have always been. There is no squirrel. The squirrel is thinking that Brexit and Covid are separate things when those in charge don't.

In terms of the vaccine suggest, I think its worth reflecting on why it was successful. Johnson played the vaccine procurement like a gambler, who bet on all the horses in order to ensure we got a winner. Throwing the kitchen sink at a problem which shut the entire economy down was always the safe option. Especially when it was also a pretty certain bet that there would be unequal rollout and a shortage when one was found. If you think about it in those terms, it easier to see how this has been a success for the government: if only one vaccine was successful, we'd be grateful we'd invested in so many options. If all the vaccines came in good we'd end up in a good place. It was a win:win strategy, and one that was not that hard to do. We now find that whilst we were cutting the International Aid Budget we were also working on soft power that excess vaccine stocks and production capability bring... I note here its actually much harder to pull off successfully if you are considerably larger like the EU because of the sheer numbers involved - the dynamics always favoured the UK and I think this probably was something the UK was aware of and was worked into strategic planning. Other things will be much harder to get such easy political wins on - not least because they still involve the economics of geography and that being smaller is typically a weakness not a strength in trading - vaccines and supply shortages are the ultimate exception not the rule. The rule is proven by the EU's politicking and the threat of a vaccine trade war.

Thus the Tory Party have seen Brexit and Covid as being intrinsically linked for some time. I don't think everyone else has quite managed to wrap their head around the fact that its near impossible at this stage to disentangle to two because of this mentality.

This current batch of Tories are disaster capitalists after all, and the twin of Brexit and Covid is a gift to their ambition.

I'll just remind you what the goal really is here. Remember Johnson's speech at the Tory Party Conference in October:
www.conservatives.com/news/boris-johnson-read-the-prime-ministers-keynote-speech-in-full

We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.

They are more often than not the trigger for an acceleration of social and economic change, because we human beings will not simply content ourselves with a repair job.

He is fully signed up to the Cummings/Gove school of thought of burn it down and rebuild afresh.

The idea that he cares about sorting out and repairing the problems Brexit brings, miss the ultimate point: He doesn't want to.

OP posts:
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thecatfromjapan · 07/02/2021 11:17

DGR 'And it seems - apocryphally - that's mainly retired people (say 60-80) telling people in industry (say 40-60) that they haven't a clue what they are talking about. Certainly in logistics where a lot of posts go "we did it in the 1970s ....'

I think it brings home to me just how impossible it is to cut through to some people.
Absolutely nothing will change their minds. 🤷‍♀️

And - all over again - just why it's an extraordinarily bad idea to hold a referendum on something so important to the whole of the U.K.
Brexit remains the most appalling abrogation of responsibility by a U.K. government ever.
Cameron should rightly be held up as the very worst Prime Minister. No, he didn't deliver Brexit - but he absolutely misunderstood - failed to appreciate the responsibility of - the very fundamentals of the office he was charged with. Utterly unforgivable.

Ellie56 · 07/02/2021 11:52

Cameron should rightly be held up as the very worst Prime Minister. No, he didn't deliver Brexit - but he absolutely misunderstood - failed to appreciate the responsibility of - the very fundamentals of the office he was charged with. Utterly unforgivable.

Yep. He started the whole process off with his ill considered referendum that he should have insisted would only be acted upon if there was an overwhelming majority for leave (at least 65/35) and all 4 nations (and Gibraltar) were unanimous.

He has so much to answer for. Angry

DGRossetti · 07/02/2021 12:08

I think it brings home to me just how impossible it is to cut through to some people. Absolutely nothing will change their minds. 🤷‍♀️

Wait till 3 generations behind them remove their "triple lock". That might focus some minds.

Peregrina · 07/02/2021 12:09

It's becoming clear Brexit is really just a proxy battle to destroy the GFA.

For some - Gove and the DUP. For others, to avoid EU regs on tax havens. For others a chance to wreck the NHS because they don't believe we should have a welfare state. For others they are desperate to become the 51st state of the USA.

FatCatThinCat · 07/02/2021 12:11

I think it brings home to me just how impossible it is to cut through to some people. Absolutely nothing will change their minds.

My mum is a rabid Daily Mail leave voter. I've had no contact with her since the referendum, so she's lost her daughter and grandchildren over it. She has no regrets about her vote and would vote the same way if she had to do it again. Brexit is more important to her than her family.

Peregrina · 07/02/2021 12:14

I just love the way they have jumped on the vaccine roll out bandwagon to justify their leave votes. Funnily enough only a year ago they weren't mentioning any need for vaccine - they had just got over their bongs for Brexit not happening....

DGRossetti · 07/02/2021 12:15

@Peregrina

It's becoming clear Brexit is really just a proxy battle to destroy the GFA.

For some - Gove and the DUP. For others, to avoid EU regs on tax havens. For others a chance to wreck the NHS because they don't believe we should have a welfare state. For others they are desperate to become the 51st state of the USA.

For others, to avoid EU regs on tax havens. For others a chance to wreck the NHS because they don't believe we should have a welfare state. For others they are desperate to become the 51st state of the USA.

Well, they've been had. Some may never realise it. Some may have realised it and now have to double down so as not to lose face.

Peregrina · 07/02/2021 12:17

Well, they have not been had as far as wrecking the NHS goes, although I see Johnson was making noises about the privatisations going too far. But with him we know he talks the talk about what he thinks people want to hear and he knows that the public do value the NHS.

UltimateFoole · 07/02/2021 12:22

Cameron - for a guy whose sole ambition was to be a politician he was pretty poor at politics. And - yes - didn't grasp the basic democratic responsibility he held for the whole nation.

DGRossetti · 07/02/2021 12:22

@Peregrina

I just love the way they have jumped on the vaccine roll out bandwagon to justify their leave votes. Funnily enough only a year ago they weren't mentioning any need for vaccine - they had just got over their bongs for Brexit not happening....
Bandwagon is exactly right. Or peer pressure. The same mechanism that gets perfectly decent folk "Sieg Hei"ing in the streets for fear of being "odd".

A cursory flicker over the reporting and the facts shows they don't align. However they do show that for many people - the ones who don't post here Grin "Remain" was not a deeply held conviction, just a loosely arrived at view. Which was also mirrored on the "Leave" side - although they tried telling us otherwise.

ListeningQuietly · 07/02/2021 12:42

Brexit is not "real" for lots of people.

Wait till COVID restrictions ease off for every other country in the summer
but the UK is left behind

DrBlackbird · 07/02/2021 13:57

For others a chance to wreck the NHS because they don't believe we should have a welfare state

The NHS power grab by central government was being reported about on BBC R4 yesterday. Being spun as reducing privatisation in the NHS. With "enhanced powers of direction for the government" to "ensure that decision makers overseeing the health system at a national level are effectively held to account".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55960355

They're having a laugh. This government?! Wanting to be held to account?! We've reached new heights of Orwellian doublespeak. With apparently no end to lies they believe know the British public will swallow. Anything to do with this government means ensuring they've got more options to extract money from taxpayers. They're smart enough to realise they'll be no other means of becoming rich/er now with bloody Brexit.

keepournhspublic.com/government-used-crisis-to-increase-privatisation-nhs-white-paper-will-endorse/

I'm back to being depressed because nutters voting for nutters (thanks Marina) bring us all down with them.

Some might rabidly shout "read the standing orders" Brexit slogans and some might politely talk about hopes for a green revolution in leaving the EU behind, but the end result is we're stuck with this boy band government burning a bonfire of democratic institutions as quickly as possible to enrich their mates and carry on this lucrative rentier economy for as long as possible.

What is the point of hoping for a sensible Labour government when they'll be nothing left by the time it happens? if it ever happens

DGRossetti · 07/02/2021 14:24

@ListeningQuietly

Brexit is not "real" for lots of people.

Wait till COVID restrictions ease off for every other country in the summer
but the UK is left behind

I've been wondered a while now if the push for the rich to be vaccinated so they can get back to swanning all over the world might be badly affected by the fact that a lot of the poorer countries they want to exploit visit won't be anywhere near as completely vaccinated ???
FrankieStein402 · 07/02/2021 15:39

BBC R4 Bottom Line
Yesterday - revisited a bunch who'd argued pros & cons of brexit on a program before the referendum. Repeating what they'd said then.

Basically the pro-leave were still talking 'opportunities' and 'teething troubles', the anti-leavers claims of disruption and collapse of small business opportunities were dismissed.

Surprise - no-one had changed their mind :(

ListeningQuietly · 07/02/2021 15:42

DGR
FB contacts in Sri Lanka and Africa are not too worried about COVID
because they face far worse every year
malaria, nipah, typhoid etc

DGRossetti · 07/02/2021 15:48

@ListeningQuietly

DGR FB contacts in Sri Lanka and Africa are not too worried about COVID because they face far worse every year malaria, nipah, typhoid etc
That wasn't quite what I meant.

I'm thinking more of a future where variants pop up all over the world and eventually one that isn't affected by the vaccinations the rich have had emerges, and we start the whole cycle once again.

ListeningQuietly · 07/02/2021 15:55

DGR
Genuinely, folks from countries with vicious, high mortality, highly contagious diseases are pretty cynical about the Western world froth.

COVID mutated from other existing endemic coronaviruses
its path will likely follow theirs

its the marburg type becoming temperate tolerant that should scare the shit out of us

DGRossetti · 07/02/2021 16:15

Brexiteers. Thick. Racist. And now fucking vandals. Someone needs to tell them that history goes back before 1939.

When Britain held Hong Kong, the native Chinese believed that the British must be experts in Feng Shui. They believed this because every single building, road and river the British touched, they managed to ruin any Feng Shui so completely that it was impossible to be mere ignorance.

Reading this story, I can kinda see why they felt that ....

Of course, for some, symbolically wiping out our Roman heritage is the logical conclusion of Brexit. Especially since so many luxury buildings could be put up if you got rid of those unsightly - and frankly foreign - ruins.

Fucking Normans.

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/plans-to-build-lorry-park-on-ancient-roman-road-to-handle-post-brexit-customs-checks-branded-immoral/07/02/

Plans to build a lorry park on an ancient Roman road to handle post-Brexit customs checks have been branded “immoral” by furious conservationists.

The ‘White Cliffs Inland Border Facility’ will cut across part of the North Downs National Trail, which runs 153 miles from Surrey to Kent.

DGRossetti · 07/02/2021 16:16

@ListeningQuietly

DGR Genuinely, folks from countries with vicious, high mortality, highly contagious diseases are pretty cynical about the Western world froth.

COVID mutated from other existing endemic coronaviruses
its path will likely follow theirs

its the marburg type becoming temperate tolerant that should scare the shit out of us

Genuinely, folks from countries with vicious, high mortality, highly contagious diseases are pretty cynical about the Western world froth.

As am I ...

FatCatThinCat · 07/02/2021 16:28

One thing that really struck me on the recent thread not asking for opinions from EU citizens about the vaccinations aggro was the sheer level of froth from the UK posters. They just couldn't accept that people in other EU states were fairly relaxed about the whole AstraZeneca squabble and weren't interested in raging at the EU. Why not? Why aren't you holding the EU to account? Why are you rioting in the streets? Why are you letting your leaders murder your elderly? DON'T YOU KNOW THERE'S A PANDEMIC ON? ARRRRRRRGH!!!!!!! Meanwhile we're just getting on with out lives and patiently waiting for our turn.

prettybird · 07/02/2021 16:46

According to my friend in NZ, it will be another few months before they get their vaccination programme going fully - but she's comfortable with that. They're managing to live life normally and even watch sport in full stadia Shock

But there again, NZ came down hard on dealing with the pandemic. Which they could because they're an island, unlike the UK Confused In the same way that Australia did which is not an island Confused

DGRossetti · 07/02/2021 16:48

@FatCatThinCat

One thing that really struck me on the recent thread not asking for opinions from EU citizens about the vaccinations aggro was the sheer level of froth from the UK posters. They just couldn't accept that people in other EU states were fairly relaxed about the whole AstraZeneca squabble and weren't interested in raging at the EU. Why not? Why aren't you holding the EU to account? Why are you rioting in the streets? Why are you letting your leaders murder your elderly? DON'T YOU KNOW THERE'S A PANDEMIC ON? ARRRRRRRGH!!!!!!! Meanwhile we're just getting on with out lives and patiently waiting for our turn.
You wouldn't worry what other people thought of you if you knew how seldom they did ...

Which is an interesting inversion of Oscar Wildes observation. Quite a lot of his wit was based on noting subtleties in the English psyche compared to the rest of Britain. "Really, if the lower orders don’t set us a good example, what on earth is the use of them? They seem, as a class, to have absolutely no sense of moral responsibility....".

( Siân Phillips, Martin Jarvis and Nigel Haves in "TIOBE" was a sublime treat. Almost as privileged as seeing the late Rober Vaughan in "12 Angry men")

DGRossetti · 07/02/2021 17:13

So much for the Monarch staying out of politics, eh ?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/07/revealed-queen-lobbied-for-change-in-law-to-hide-her-private-wealth

mrslaughan · 07/02/2021 18:30

@pretty - they plan to start the program in April (subject to receiving there vaccine shipments) - unfortunately(for us) they expect the program to run through the entire - I say unfortunately as we were really hoping to go home at Xmas to see our family. We have our fingers crossed that we will be able to go at Easter.

But other than overseas travel being very difficult (near on impossible) life is very very normal. My family can't comprehend what we are living through...

mrslaughan · 07/02/2021 18:32

DGR - it would seem only when it suits her purpose....

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