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Brexit

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 13:58

An 'interesting' week. To say the least.

It has highlighted the purpose, point and weaknesses of the EU. It has revealled that the Irish Border is an ongoing issue which can not be ignored. Not only is it causing shortages in NI but it also reminds us that a zero covid strategy for the UK can not be managed unilaterally; we are not New Zealand.

It shows up the changing geo-politics of leaving. We have applied to join the Asia-Pacific free trade pact just a day after Macron told us to chose out allies and reminded us that geography and history have always tied our fate to France.

The epic fuck up of the EU has lead a rallying cry of support for leaving... but covid is currently hiding much of the reality of the implications of Brexit which will yet come out in the wash.

Brexit and Covid are tied together as conjoined twins of economic disaster though. Once restrictions start to lift, the shit will start to hit the fan. The efforts on where to aportion blame will start but it won't be on Brexit. We've known this for some time. Brexit no longer is relevant. Except of course it is. But who is writing the winner's narrative? Things are as they have always been. There is no squirrel. The squirrel is thinking that Brexit and Covid are separate things when those in charge don't.

In terms of the vaccine suggest, I think its worth reflecting on why it was successful. Johnson played the vaccine procurement like a gambler, who bet on all the horses in order to ensure we got a winner. Throwing the kitchen sink at a problem which shut the entire economy down was always the safe option. Especially when it was also a pretty certain bet that there would be unequal rollout and a shortage when one was found. If you think about it in those terms, it easier to see how this has been a success for the government: if only one vaccine was successful, we'd be grateful we'd invested in so many options. If all the vaccines came in good we'd end up in a good place. It was a win:win strategy, and one that was not that hard to do. We now find that whilst we were cutting the International Aid Budget we were also working on soft power that excess vaccine stocks and production capability bring... I note here its actually much harder to pull off successfully if you are considerably larger like the EU because of the sheer numbers involved - the dynamics always favoured the UK and I think this probably was something the UK was aware of and was worked into strategic planning. Other things will be much harder to get such easy political wins on - not least because they still involve the economics of geography and that being smaller is typically a weakness not a strength in trading - vaccines and supply shortages are the ultimate exception not the rule. The rule is proven by the EU's politicking and the threat of a vaccine trade war.

Thus the Tory Party have seen Brexit and Covid as being intrinsically linked for some time. I don't think everyone else has quite managed to wrap their head around the fact that its near impossible at this stage to disentangle to two because of this mentality.

This current batch of Tories are disaster capitalists after all, and the twin of Brexit and Covid is a gift to their ambition.

I'll just remind you what the goal really is here. Remember Johnson's speech at the Tory Party Conference in October:
www.conservatives.com/news/boris-johnson-read-the-prime-ministers-keynote-speech-in-full

We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.

They are more often than not the trigger for an acceleration of social and economic change, because we human beings will not simply content ourselves with a repair job.

He is fully signed up to the Cummings/Gove school of thought of burn it down and rebuild afresh.

The idea that he cares about sorting out and repairing the problems Brexit brings, miss the ultimate point: He doesn't want to.

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ListeningQuietly · 03/02/2021 12:15

MrsL
With COVID - the NHS is doing a fab job of vaccinating.
Baroness Dido is still fucking up Test and Trace.
The NHS is learning and adapting and sharing best practice on treatments.
The UKBA is still not properly controlling movement in and out of the country.
SAGE and iSAGE both know hat needs doing
but its not politically cheery
The solutions are clear.
But we have to get the politicians and their cronies out of the game

borntobequiet · 03/02/2021 12:18

Sons and daughters of toil, obviously. I used to be a fisherperson, many years ago.

RedToothBrush · 03/02/2021 12:23

@mrslaughan

So what do you suggest Red? We don't try ? And live with a huge number of deaths a day ? A huge part of the population that develops long term neurological issues and infertility? Not to mention we continue to create evolutionary pressures that could bring about ever more nasty variants and possibly vaccine resistant- because that's what you are advocating for , by throwing your hands in the air and saying it's impossible- we are not NZ.... Or we try and suppress as low as possible.....

And ok - if you don't want NZ - Australia..... we they closed boarders on states , which did allowed for food and trade to travel across boarders - but still worked to suppress the virus

I suggest we think about a proper cohesive strategy with the Republic which reflects the border issue (in other words, make it damn clear that we need fast roll out in Ireland too and to help with that if necessary).

And to have rhetoric that is honest about how we don't have enough facilities to enact full quarantine at the border and or nature as a centre for trade / the world makes it near impossible to keep out variants. And its too damn late now and its a question more of keeping cases low.

Honesty is sorely lacking in all this from all sides.

And to get a bloody move on with developing a newer version of vaccines.

There are actually limits to what can be achieved. The problem with the pandemic is that once you hit a critical mass of cases you can't stop cases completely.

Unless you want to go fully down the route of china with compulsory swabs up your arse and an almost complete border shut. The reality for the UK is that we trade too much and aren't self sufficient for food. And our values system wont allow for draconian authoritarian measures across the board.

Yep we will just have to live with it to an extent because the cat is out the bag.

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derxa · 03/02/2021 12:37

@borntobequiet

Surely if Labour wanted to showcase its patriotic credentials it should be kicking up an almighty fuss on behalf of the horny handed sons of toil aka farmers and fishermen - who literally work our land and sea - and their current Brexit related troubles. But! They voted for the deal that’s causing said problems. So they can’t. Plonkers.
Not this again. But you're quite right. Labour should be focussing on farmers and fishermen. Ditch the sole focus on traditional voters. I like Keir and would vote for him tomorrow.
thecatfromjapan · 03/02/2021 12:42

Miaow We're not allowed to keep a lot of that 'on the door' data. Especially any feedback. Plus, of course, feedback collected thus is highly circumscribed by context.

I don't think Labour have anything like the data-harvesting capabilities of Cambridge Analytica. That's what makes CA special.

Re. The treaty story. The thing I thought was interesting was that Kuenssberg was focussing on Govey, not Johnson. Even though Johnson's tweeting away furiously.

I was wondering if it was Gove trying to get his way to the front of attention (over Hancock, Sunak and Johnson). Or if anything else was going on.

Peregrina · 03/02/2021 12:48

I was wondering if it was Gove trying to get his way to the front of attention (over Hancock, Sunak and Johnson). Or if anything else was going on.

The vaccine roll out seems to have been going pretty well, which must have given Johnson and Hancock a short term boost, so it's maybe Gove trying to make sure that he doesn't get forgotten, when the inevitable blood letting starts.

mrslaughan · 03/02/2021 12:57

You are absolutely right LQ - DIDo needs to be well out of it.... she apparently said to select committee that mutations weren't a known risk......(when virologists were raising that)

Interestingly our local council has set up testing for people still working.... a friend who is a cleaner is being tested every week....

I am feeling completely fed up and upset this morning. A very good friend has had a major health crisis - she is having a major op next week . Her only option is private ( thank god she is lucky enough to pay - and I know there are a huge number not in that position) - but she has to go into hospital with no support, will be in hospital for a week , waiting for very scary news about the results - again with no support. It's shit and it really didn't and doesn't need to be that way.

Then I read some fucker of a Tory peer saying this is all the NHS's fault and I really want to do physical harm to them.....

mrslaughan · 03/02/2021 13:00

Having said that - infection rates too high to effectively track and trace ...... and then there's the whole issue around people not being able to afford to self isolate......

borntobequiet · 03/02/2021 13:20

Not this again

Not what again?

Focalpoint · 03/02/2021 13:20

So predictable. Johnson now threatening to invoke article 16.

DGRossetti · 03/02/2021 13:34

@Jason118

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/957996/2020_02_02_-_Letter_from_CDL_to_VP_Šefčovič.pdf

The letter to the EU saying the agreement must be renegotiated.

"must is not a word for Princes ..."

Why must a deal the UK made such a song and dance about agreeing need to be renegotiated ?

Although now we know why Boris is where he is.

DGRossetti · 03/02/2021 13:34

@Focalpoint

So predictable. Johnson now threatening to invoke article 16.
Suggesting he doesn't understand it ....
DGRossetti · 03/02/2021 13:51

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/completely-unrealistic-to-call-for-end-of-brexit-protocol-irish-fm-says/03/02/

...
Coveney said Ireland, the UK and the EU have a legal obligation, in an international treaty, to implement the protocol.

“The protocol isn’t primarily the problem here; the problem is Brexit and the kind of Brexit that the British Government pursued and insisted on,” Coveney added. “There were alternatives that would have been much easier to implement.

(contd)

Sostenueto · 03/02/2021 14:00

Yes Boris is rethinking the NI border so as I said weeks ago he will enforce article 16 as threatened in a Parliament scrutiny committee about a month ago. Wonder if there will be uproar about him doing it as much as when EU did it. Thing is the agreement is what Boris signed up to. Did he not realise what he was signing?

DGRossetti · 03/02/2021 14:06

@Sostenueto

Yes Boris is rethinking the NI border so as I said weeks ago he will enforce article 16 as threatened in a Parliament scrutiny committee about a month ago. Wonder if there will be uproar about him doing it as much as when EU did it. Thing is the agreement is what Boris signed up to. Did he not realise what he was signing?
Once again, he doesn't actually understand article 16. It's not there to save his arse - even if that's what he wanted.

It's there to allow the entire protocol to continue working around an individual exception.

He seems to think he can declare it and make everything an exception - which is breaking the protocol.

And I can't see any bad faith actions being unremarked on outside the UK and EU either.

It needs to be pointed out to Brexiteers (those you can find) that this is the deal they wanted. They voted for, and that they got. So they can shut their stupid faces and get behind it and declare anyone who isn't happy with it an enemy of the people. Fucking fuckers.

FatCatThinCat · 03/02/2021 14:09

@Sostenueto

Yes Boris is rethinking the NI border so as I said weeks ago he will enforce article 16 as threatened in a Parliament scrutiny committee about a month ago. Wonder if there will be uproar about him doing it as much as when EU did it. Thing is the agreement is what Boris signed up to. Did he not realise what he was signing?
No there'll be no uproar. Everyone will use the EU mistake to justify it. 'But they did it first!'
FatCatThinCat · 03/02/2021 14:13

Grant Shapps has said that the reason Britain couldn't shut it borders like Australia is because Britain is an island. Have the government got some game going on to see who can come out with the most fuckwitted thing and get away with it, or are they just really, really dim?

DGRossetti · 03/02/2021 14:15

The UK doesn't have the power to unilaterally make the protocol go away. The EU aren't that stupid. Also, it's an admission to the rest of the world (who don't read the Mail) that the UK fucked up right royally. I mean so badly it can be seen from space. If I had just signed any sort of deal with the UK, I'd be getting my people to treble check it to make sure the UK couldn't pull a similar stunt if it feels hard done by.

DGRossetti · 03/02/2021 14:16

@FatCatThinCat

Grant Shapps has said that the reason Britain couldn't shut it borders like Australia is because Britain is an island. Have the government got some game going on to see who can come out with the most fuckwitted thing and get away with it, or are they just really, really dim?
You have to ask why anyone bothers with school anymore in this country.
Sostenueto · 03/02/2021 14:16

Really, really, REALLY dim!Grin

DGRossetti · 03/02/2021 14:19

He probably meant to say that Britain isn't an island.

DGRossetti · 03/02/2021 14:21

It's also telling that either the committee accepted that, proving they are no less dim. Or they did challenge it, but it wasn't deemed newsworthy.

There is no good aspect to that news.

ListeningQuietly · 03/02/2021 14:37

I genuinely feel INCREDIBLY sorry for schools at the moment.
DH is working remotely with some and the teachers are at breaking point.
This morning's one has had to send even keyworker kids home and close because of COVID among the staff.
this afternoon's one has pupils stuck in different time zones private boarding, went home for Christmas trying to join in live lessons
Sad

DGRossetti · 03/02/2021 14:40

@ListeningQuietly

I genuinely feel INCREDIBLY sorry for schools at the moment. DH is working remotely with some and the teachers are at breaking point. This morning's one has had to send even keyworker kids home and close because of COVID among the staff. this afternoon's one has pupils stuck in different time zones private boarding, went home for Christmas trying to join in live lessons Sad
with the killer blow being the realisation that no matter how well you do educationally, you'll never reach the lofty heights of the Shapps, Raabs, Williamsons and Johnsons of this world.

Really, why bother ?