Westminstenders: Move Your Business To The EU

[RedToothBrush]

The government is advising people to move their businesses to the EU to avoid UK taxation and red tape.

Why would you do this?

For the interests of the uk?

Or is it about power WITHIN the uk?

Any thread in particular?

^ Do we know who has been vaccinated with what? I know MIL had the Pfizer vaccine - only one dose so far, and seems not to have had any side effects.^ Peregrina

Everyone I know who has been vaccinated has been told which vaccine they had and I think also given a card with it written on. I'm pretty sure that for all vaccinations generally the NHS keeps careful records of which patients had exactly what from which batch.

No, that wasn't what I was asking. We know what MIL has had. What I wanted to know was how it has been rolled out to the general population. What percentage of those vaccinated have had pfizer or the AZ one? What percentage have had one dose. Have a percentage who have had two doses had mixed doses - one pfizer and one AZ?

Are any vaccines being manufactured in the UK?

At the moment, it's Moderna, Pfizer and AstraZenica that are rolled out... I think I heard of a Sanofi/GSK one, I assume that's using GSK's manufacturing capacity in France? What about J&J?

@HoneysuckIejasmine

Are any vaccines being manufactured in the UK?

At the moment, it's Moderna, Pfizer and AstraZenica that are rolled out... I think I heard of a Sanofi/GSK one, I assume that's using GSK's manufacturing capacity in France? What about J&J?

The uk government has said that they are getting 'the bulk' of our AZ supply from sites in Oxfordshire and Staffordshire. AZs factory in Belgium is apparently the one having problems with production. Theres also a AZ covid production site in India. Not sure where else they are producing.

We get our Pfizer supply from Belgium.

The Times is reporting that the EU has told European manufacturers they must tell them how much vaccine they are supplying to us and when and may block shipments if we get too much.

They seem to be pissed that the deal we have with AZ is preferential. Theres a key paragraph in the article about it (have screen shot close up so you can read)

It means that we could become very much more heavily reliant on AZ. (Remember they seem to have suggested that they can provide 'up to 2 million doses a week to the uk' once they hit full pelt - which is perhaps significantly lower than we need per week to complete vaccination of the whole country in the hoped time scales.

Yes there are other vaccinations in the pipeline but it depends on how quick we can get large quantities.

I believe we have in the region of 370 million doses on order but its about production limitations rather than doses ordered thats the issue. And we are in direct competition with the US and EU for them. Who paid what and the terms of those deals may prove crucial yet.

AZ, if its significantly less effective, or the EU decides in the future isnt good enough protection (particularly for over 65s) may be a problem for travel if we have to have 'covid passports' if this proves to be ongoing (which suits the uk government agenda just fine tbh). Even if it is effective this whole spat undermines trust in the vaccine and it may deter people from having it in the false hope that they can 'get the other one'.

I am pretty angry at them all to be perfectly honest.

J and J vaccine
The investigational vaccines will be produced at Janssen's facility in Leiden, the Netherlands. In April the company also announced manufacturing partnerships in the U.S., and, recently, one in Italy, with more plants to potentially be added in other countries.

Could still be problematic for the UK to get supplies early on now even if we approve J and J.

Thanks RTB, thorough as ever.

Uk has ordered:
100 mil AZ
40 mil Pfizer
60 mil Novavax
60 mil Valneva
60 mil GSK/Sanofi
30 mil J&J (Janssen)

If there is an export ban on vaccine by either the EU or US we have issues. The majority of alternatives we potentially have to AZ are EU manufactured.

The government have been really reluctant to reveal how much vaccine theyve managed to get delivered. It now starts to become apparent why that might be the case.

Whilst 100mil of AZ sounds great in principle thats still theoretically likely to take a full year to deliver... (and take into account the need for a double dose and it slows things right down)

We NEED supplies from elsewhere. Just like everyone else does for a speedy vaccination programme. Or we risk running into the autumn.

I can see my chances of a vaccination rapidly slipping away. Chances are they will do uni students ahead of me cos of the time frames that delays might force...

I THINK we will be good for our top 4 priority groups. I am reasonably confident we will get most done before it hits our supply chain issues. And that will be done by mid Febish (possibly slightly later than the target). I think enough vaccine likely to be in the NHS's hands to see them done (good news)

Its the next few groups that are more problematic and at risk of delays that are more concerning.

And im much further down the list than that and at the wrong end of the alphabet. Im going no where fast.

Keep in mind when booking your holidays...

If there are going to be supply problems, they better make sure they have enough for second doses to be given rather than having a whole heap of people not protected fully.

Bugger. Better to know though and adjust expectations gradually in little bits rather than be hit with a big shock.

@BlackeyedSusan

If there are going to be supply problems, they better make sure they have enough for second doses to be given rather than having a whole heap of people not protected fully.

Bugger. Better to know though and adjust expectations gradually in little bits rather than be hit with a big shock.

I HOPE I'm wrong and this all blows over, but demand in the UK, EU and US far exceeds production capacity so i fear a certain inevitably in a fight at all costs over vaccine supplies.

And yes, i bloody hope they have pfizer second doses covered. But this is the uk, and if there's one thing we are good at these days its an entirely preventable scandal.

Glad top four are getting done. (Mum, care home) but I am concerned about needing widespread vaccination to provide protection as we know you can catch Covid despite having two doses of AZ. We are just waiting to see if it can be passed on. They had quite close contact for quite a while. So far so good, but pissed off children not going in the snow.

I'm in band 6 personally, but band 2 if I was working at the moment, which I'm not as my kids aren't at school (0 hours contract). But as soon as schools go back I can book an appointment. 🤞🤞 If they don't get to band 6 before then

They have a talent for preventable scandals.

We could have X percent of population protected with Pfizer, but could end up with a lot fewer or 0 % fully protected.

They are humming and haaing about putting carers in band 6, otherwise I am in band 9.

They are doing over 70s here. Someone got a call 2 days after their birthday!

Hello everyone.

Have you seen what's happening elsewhere on MN, around school closures/lockdown?

I think our old friends are back, with a new rallying cause.

It's ... weird.

Just seen you, RedToothBrush.

Thank goodness.

I swear we need you to re-post your advice about how to deal with disinformation in the digital age again.

And somewhere bloody prominent.

Honestly, I've been away from MN - just dipping in here occasionally - and I had no idea this was going on.

It's been the weirdest experience. 😮

.

Well if you look at the key paragraph i highlighted in the times article and then read this twitter thread:

twitter.com/barristershorse/status/1353905785651273728?s=21

It gives a slightly different version of what might be going on.

I don't know whether the above twitter thread is accurate, but if it is, it - like the Times front page article - suggest the EU screws up on the contract wording in failing to insist on the right thing: guaranteed delivery.

The optics of the uk happily rolling out whilst the EU doesn't is a domestic political disaster for all concerned. There is a lot of incentive to throw weight around as a result.

Why the wording for AZ contract might be like that is another matter. Did the UK government insist on it when funding the vaccine? Possibly. Indeed probably. It would explain why the UK didn't want to join any vaccine supply sharing scheme.

I suspect what is 'fair' and what is 'legal' will be hotly debated.

If that thread is right, it makes it look like the EU have screwed up massively on contracts.

However this might well backfire on the uk in practice. Especially if AZ isnt as good as hoped and the EU block exports of other vaccines (which they are extremely likely to in the event of a shortage). Then the UK government has a case for legal cases over breached contract depending on how they are worded (Pfizer also has manufacturing capacity in the US which may still come into play here).

If the EU pushes back hard on the UK on this one, that might push us harder towards the US... (that's not necessarily a good thing for the EU or UK).

The more i see and read on this the messier it seems to get.

If the EU pushes back hard on the UK on this one, that might push us harder towards the US... (that's not necessarily a good thing for the EU or UK).

Something the Tory hardliners would love - all helps US big pharma get more tentacles into the NHS to destroy it.

Making a comparison here with Brexit, all the immediate family members voted Remain, so we had no real split there. On Covid-19 it's been a different story with two very very pro the vaccine who can't wait to get their jabs, to a complete sceptic going on about it being just flu, and 3 of us in the middle, not quite sure what it is which is killing people, but it seems nasty, and hoping the vaccine is OK but it has been rushed into production without extensive trials.
The two pro the vaccine have major health issues, the anti has never even had flu so doesn't really know what he's talking about. So we have had a flavour of the Brexit split.

twitter.com/washingtonski/status/1353841867029438465?s=21

A view of what's going on in Germany with regard to the AZ vaccine

I am wondering why there was all of a sudden the focus on schools going back - the will they won't they. Boris talking about loosening restrictions..... whips up a media frenzy - is that a distraction from the approaching debacle over vaccines....

Just wanted to say how much I appreciate your posts on the vaccine supply, Red.

And for your insights about government nervousness, the Party Right, and vaccine supply crunch.

Think you're spot on there.

With our extraordinarily high covid rate, this is a very good reason to not puss off the EU, or anyone for that matter.
If only we had a government who knew how to collaborate

twitter.com/drericding/status/1353864909772251138?s=21

Personally, I don't think it's a distraction, mrslaughan. I think there's another massive tussle in the Conservatives going on. And, as Red has pointed out, there may be a problem with vaccine supply - which leads to all sorts of problems.

Johnson has staked everything on a fast vaccination programme not just leading us out of the pandemic but also getting him out of the tussle with the CRG.

Problems with the vaccine supply make that all trickier.