Westminstenders: Move Your Business To The EU

[RedToothBrush]

The government is advising people to move their businesses to the EU to avoid UK taxation and red tape.

Why would you do this?

For the interests of the uk?

Or is it about power WITHIN the uk?

I think it will be ruthless in keeping BJ on until all the sins of Brexit are heaped on his head and then kicking him out.

Absolutely. Cameron deprived them of their backstabbing sport by swanning off whistling. They enjoyed May's defenestration but it looked a little ungallant, should we say. Johnson, to mix a metaphor, will be given both barrels but not yet. Summer maybe.

the idea that the any company should be prioritising countries who are yet to approve the vaccine
Well, ultimately it depends what the contract said. If - as has been reported - the EU paid $300 million up front and had very specific delivery terms, that might be just a teensy weensy problem for AZ.

Also, I think it is a fair observation that the EU's response (or at least the framing of it) has more than a little to do with vaccine nationalism elsewhere. Like the stupid spat over the EU ambassador's status, this was a fight that did not need to be and should not have been picked.

For completeness - the NHS is doing well at vaccinating - as you'd expect from a big post war socialist institution. But most of the gap to date has been early mover advantage - the French for eg are now vaccinating as fast if not faster than the U.K. at the same point in time (when the U.K. vaccination response was still supply constrained).

@Mistigri

the idea that the any company should be prioritising countries who are yet to approve the vaccine Well, ultimately it depends what the contract said. If - as has been reported - the EU paid $300 million up front and had very specific delivery terms, that might be just a teensy weensy problem for AZ.

The contract is different to trying to make out there is a massive concern about humanitarian issues. There isnt. Yeah the UK are acting like twats over it, but the EU dont have to then act like a bellend about it either. Its hardly helping the situation. It only gives the uk an inflated bloody ego anyway!

I do find the concept of huge amounts of vaccine in warehouses anywhere in the world utterly abhorrent though. Especially when the uk have particular issues with a high death toll and a more virulent strain that everyone is shitting their pants over.

Its not as if its not in the EUs interest for the UK to get jabs in arms if they are busy sitting on their hands doing fuck all since its a global problem anyway.

The EMA need to pull their finger out their arses if the EU want to complain loudly. Otherwise they are demanding hoards.

I have no doubt that other countries will catch up and im fully expecting a chronic shortage of vaccine to hit the uk pretty soon anyway. I'm willing to bet we will be depriortised at some point (precisely for humanitarian reasons) by the pharmaceutical companies. And that will cause uproar here when it happens. I fear a grinding crunching halt somewhere in late Feb, early March.

I cant stand the posturing on either side tbh because its nonsense and utterly self defeating.

Rw: federalism.
Yes - that ship has sailed, crashed and sank to the bottom of the ocean. Imagine what would have been, if Cameron had kept his promises post-Scottish referendum and looked aftesh at the settlement.

Mind you, maybe we should be grateful he didn't. If Brexit is any guide, it there could be a full scale riot happening at Hadrian's wall, right now.

I love the word "mucilaginous."
Thanks @ borntobequiet.

@RedToothBrush, if things do come to a grinding halt with the vaccine, it's the end of the Johnson Government. There's already rumblings of discontent with backbenchers over the schools situation. The only reason I think everyone is reasonably quiet about this lockdown is because there's an end in sight.

That will change if we are left in limbo, with people's finances, businesses, education and mental health being shredded.

Apologies for the typos.

[quote TheABC]@RedToothBrush, if things do come to a grinding halt with the vaccine, it's the end of the Johnson Government. There's already rumblings of discontent with backbenchers over the schools situation. The only reason I think everyone is reasonably quiet about this lockdown is because there's an end in sight.

That will change if we are left in limbo, with people's finances, businesses, education and mental health being shredded.[/quote]
Indeed.

Its something to be keeping a very close eye on. I'm worried about how the vaccine shortage is going to pan out internationally.

Something has to give somewhere. What is it going to be? Both the EU and US are desperate for vaccine. Its not escaped my notice that Hungary has unilaterally ordered some of the Russian vaccine despite it not being approved by the EMA...

With the EU and US both pushing for Pfizer and AstraZeneca its problematic. We have the least political power in theory.

That will change if we are left in limbo, with people's finances, businesses, education and mental health being shredded.
For those who are now into their 11th month of almost no income
the limbo is awful

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/01/24/half-trucks-carrying-fresh-air-brexit-covid-hit-exports/

I think people are underestimating how seriously the EU is taking this AZ fuckup.

Screen shot of a conversation between people who have been consistently right in a number of EU issues (including Brexit). AZ is in monumental trouble.

And the EMA are just doing their jobs. Maybe some capacity issues post Brexit but their ARE issues with the AZ jab that require careful consideration, in particular the major, major fuck up in the clinical trial (wrong dose). Which incidentally means that the FDA won't approve until April at the earliest. (Europe will have J&J vaccine before America has AZ).

There have also been some manufacturing/QC issues as reported by Le Monde - MHRA doesn't do manufacturing inspections.

If EMA doesn't approve the AZ vaccine, or if it only approves it for under 55 year olds as is apparently possible, U.K. vaccine strategy will start to look positively experimental.

So the roll out of the AZ vaccine because it could be done speedily supposedly because of Brexit sounds like more willy waving by Johnson and Co.

I can see the point of wanting to roll out the vaccine quickly but at the same time, it does seem like a glorified clinical trial is taking place. Do we know who has been vaccinated with what? I know MIL had the Pfizer vaccine - only one dose so far, and seems not to have had any side effects.

@Mistigri

And the EMA are just doing their jobs. Maybe some capacity issues post Brexit but their ARE issues with the AZ jab that require careful consideration, in particular the major, major fuck up in the clinical trial (wrong dose). Which incidentally means that the FDA won't approve until April at the earliest. (Europe will have J&J vaccine before America has AZ).

There have also been some manufacturing/QC issues as reported by Le Monde - MHRA doesn't do manufacturing inspections.

If EMA doesn't approve the AZ vaccine, or if it only approves it for under 55 year olds as is apparently possible, U.K. vaccine strategy will start to look positively experimental.

I'm sure that the EU will turn screws. I understand why.

I understand that the EMA are doing their job. I don't think the MHRA weren't though either.

I also understand its going to affect UK supplies sooner if it all kicks off. Not many people are grasping the implications...

The UK may have made a horrific mistake. They may not have. We may find out the hard way.

However the alternative isn't great either - people are desparate. And I still find the idea of warehouses of vaccine deplorable when it could be used - I'd say the same if the situation were reversed. Approval for lower risk under 55s only in the EU when its being used in the UK for everyone raises huge questions in both directions which doesn't help.

Its a huge fucking mess which is not exactly going to help relations between the UK and anyone else. And I think our government will try it on and try and use it as that anyway.

Interesting as I say.

And I think our government will try it on and try and use it as that anyway.

That's exactly it with our Government - saying look at us we are Billy Big Bollocks, instead of coming together with the rest of Europe and saying that this is a crisis, lets get the best brains working together on it to find the best solution we can.

a friend of mine is in the J&J trial
she had her "unblind" appointment today
will hear about it later in the week

its the shit communication that is doing my head in
on Brexit
on COVID
on everything

Vaccine shortages are incredibly worrying. People don't mind waiting for the most part of you see the queue moving. But twiddling your thumbs with no movement is very stressful.

Very politically sensitive too.

@Peregrina

And I think our government will try it on and try and use it as that anyway.

That's exactly it with our Government - saying look at us we are Billy Big Bollocks, instead of coming together with the rest of Europe and saying that this is a crisis, lets get the best brains working together on it to find the best solution we can.

The politics of the whole supply issue has been a concern of mine for a while, but apparently I'm 'not allowed' to discuss this in certain quarters on MN because its not fluffy and optimistic and it damages people's mental health. Bollocks to that tbh, cos we can't avoid the wall of reality, burying you head in the sand does not stop these foreseeable problems happening. Its not me trying to piss on chips, its me warning people of whats looking suspiciously likely in the pipeland.

Which in itself worries me, because if the shit hits the fan, its going to have a massive psychological effect on people who have built up an unrealistic idea picture of how well things are going.

My suspicion is we are real in danger of a trade war over vaccine with export of vaccine manufactured in the EU and the UK banned to each other (and with the US having not dissimilar problems, the possibility of issues there too).

God its a fucking MESS.

We shall see.

My 84 year old dad still hasn't heard anything from his GP surgery

He says that he believes that part of the problem is that all practices are being sent (say) 300 vaccines/week: but some practices only have (say) 200 over 80s, so are then able to move on to other categories, but others (like his) have (say) 1,000 over 80s

Numbers are for demonstration only, but the reality is that his GP practice has many many more over 80s than the average

....,and if they're doing it alphabetically rather than by age, he's well and truly stuffed

@HoneysuckIejasmine

Vaccine shortages are incredibly worrying. People don't mind waiting for the most part of you see the queue moving. But twiddling your thumbs with no movement is very stressful.

Very politically sensitive too.

Theres a critical mass of thumb twiddling before it turns into unrest. Just coming into early spring when the weather is starting to improve...

We should be feeling very uneasy about the current situation.

It would explain the nervousness I'm sensing from government which has been making me most twitchy cos I've not been able to fully put my finger on what it is that seems to be making them quite soooo nervous. I thought it was the new variants but on reflection, I'm not so sure it is.

Its shit stirring within the party ranks in parallel with a crunch in vaccine supply getting messy thats possibly causing the nerves...

... the hard right are sharpening their claws.

Hi Red, that's really interesting: what are the best sources to read/follow to learn more? I had no idea that there might be vaccine issues...

What a complete shambles the vaccination roll out is proving to be. Realistically I knew/suspected this government would make a hash of it, but I didn’t imagine vaccination trade wars. I guess the moral of the story is always never think things have got as bad as they can be because it can always get worse.

There are going to be additional vaccines soon though. J&J looks good, if the data are positive, because it only requires one dose. I’m in the Novavax trial, which is also likely to report in the next couple of weeks. Hopefully the availability of additional products will help reduce supply issues.

I was under the impression that the vaccine roll out had gone quite well to date - because they'd used existing GP practices and pharmacies - instead of bunging it out to Serco or some Tory crony whose experience was in selling biscuits or some such.

I can't help wonder if people seeing riots in the Netherlands, and other countries will set them off. Coupled with the Government not knowing what its doing from one day to the next, so none of us really know the rules and if we looked them up, they would already have been changed.

@Peregrina

I was under the impression that the vaccine roll out had gone quite well to date - because they'd used existing GP practices and pharmacies - instead of bunging it out to Serco or some Tory crony whose experience was in selling biscuits or some such.

I can't help wonder if people seeing riots in the Netherlands, and other countries will set them off. Coupled with the Government not knowing what its doing from one day to the next, so none of us really know the rules and if we looked them up, they would already have been changed.

The thread on MN which is perhaps more sympathetic than make me comfortable, are eye opening.