Westminstenders: Move Your Business To The EU

[RedToothBrush]

The government is advising people to move their businesses to the EU to avoid UK taxation and red tape.

Why would you do this?

For the interests of the uk?

Or is it about power WITHIN the uk?

should we of remained as the other half don't count ? What ever way it went some were not going to be happy

A great argument not to hold very divisive referendums?

@jasjas1973 so you think scotland should not have another then ?
Are most elections not devisive ?

In fairness to Macron nobody has the data as AZ didn't do enough tests on the 65+ age group.

Not quite true as a bald statement - old fogies were ~8% of the cohort. Tests showed that group created antibodies just fine, albeit less so in the over 70's - common vaccine behaviour.

The issue was that in the trial not enough of the 8%, in either placebo or vaccine groups, actually caught covid for the results to be statistically significant. (Logical really, that age group were most likely to be 'careful'!)

What would be needed is for a larger cohort and longer trial to ensure that enough participants actually catch covid!

MHRA based their decision on the antibody behaviour in lieu of statistical evidence.

Countries with problems with their own democratic system have to sort themselves out.

@TatianaBis what our system? Whats wrong with it ?

Whats wrong with it ?

Arf.

@TatianaBis did you vote then to change it when we were given the chance ?

Not quite true as a bald statement - old fogies were ~8% of the cohort. Tests showed that group created antibodies just fine, albeit less so in the over 70's - common vaccine behaviour.

This is why post approval data will be so important.

I've seen a report tonight for eg on a study of the Pfizer vaccination in over 80s which suggests that many will need 2 doses before they have adequate immunity. Small study so more of a "watch this space", but I think it's an important point that accelerating approvals and going off-label (as the U.K. has with its 12 week gap) are not risk free strategies.

@Mistigri totally not risk free and others will probably be watching closely and why my nan is staying in still ( no supermarket etc) until she has dose 2 in late march / april

Like Macron I have no data for this claim but I doubt the Pfizer is likely to prove hugely more effective than the AZ for the 65+.

We have had no vote to change our democratic system.

If we were given a vote on PR I would vote in favour.

The base was so small as to be inconclusive. 8% in the study which translated into a handful actually with COVID that could be observed. 19% of Europe's population is over 65%. How can you convince a skeptical public to take a vaccine when you have tested on such a small sample? Better to say, look, we'll give the over 65s Pfizer and the younger at risk AZ.

I watched an interview with the head of Moderna who was saying they were slower getting phase 3 data as they wanted to ensure they included enough black volunteers as they knew they were more skeptical and they wanted to give reassurance. A pity AZ didn't take the same approach with the most at risk group in therms of age.

Like Macron I have no data for this claim but I doubt the Pfizer is likely to prove hugely more effective than the AZ for the 65+.

We have a lot more data on 65+ for Pfizer.

I'm really curious to know this: if you think EMA was too cautious about the AZ vaccine what about the FDA? The Americans are making AZ run another study, won't approve until spring at the earliest.

We have had no vote to change our democratic system

Yes we did. And I voted against it. If it had been LR I would have voted for it but AV was too complicated in my opinion.

Back to lurking now.......

@TatianaBis yes we did

PR

@Mistigri don't us have a good supply though so don't need the az as much
Only time will tell , does the data get printed for who had what yet do we know?

@usuallydormant unless your in a position where you don't have enough other vaccines I suppose.
Are more tests being done?
All the older people I know seem to of been given pfizer so far ( not that I know hundreds )

The Leave vote has constitutional consequences but it did not change the UK’s democratic system.

Indeed, it paved the way for democracy such as it is to be subverted.

Was referring to the Leave vote @Wakeupin2022

Not in the uk press:

Apparently BioNTech has now granted production permission to Sanofi and AZ are also in the process of giving licence to another Big Pharma giant, but no details.

The problem with this, is it is taking too long and certification of plants is too slow. It should have happened sooner but it hasn't.

Where is the benefit in turning the screws on the UK? Where should efforts be being focused?

Btw, BCF didn't have a clue about the article 16 business until i told her. Nothing in the newspapers there... She looked it up in the Guardian.

Why is Macron taking the more cautious attitude to AZ?

It's knocked the 100,000 dead right out of the news.

For now, but not for the families of the dead I would warrant.

They are turning the screws on a pharma company, not the UK.

When Pfizer had problems in production, it reduced delivery to customers in proportion. AZ seem to be delivering to UK as scheduled but not to the EU. Its explanations have been deemed inconsistent and unclear. It seems from the contract they should have alerted the eu to the fact that the UK had priority if that was indeed the case. From where I am, people can understand production is complex but shafting one customer over another is not on, especially if that customer has not been told there is some secret queue.

The news about Sanofi stopping vaccine efforts and giving capacity in their factories to Pfizer was in French papers yesterday- but easier for the Johnson cheerleaders to push a story about French hissy fits over failed efforts...

In my view, It is a total storm in a teacup fanned by British paranoia and an EU team wanting to be seen as tough. AZ and the Commission need to take it off line and sort out a compromise. The EU need the vaccines, AZ need to recoup their reputation. Their trials have been noted as problematic even before this and their PR careless. The EU might think they are being transparent but it's coming across unprofessional and with the article 16 issue, too hasty. The fact that they are giving Brexiteers a present is neither here nor there. One swallow doesn't make a summer and the UK's honestly impressive vaccination rate is not dependent on Brexit and unlikely to convince others in Europe that Brexit is a good idea.

People have been referencing the excellent Tony Connelly from RTÉ but for people looking for other non UK commentators Naomi O Leary, the new Irish Times Europe correspondent is also well worth reading.