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Brexit

Westminstenders: Move Your Business To The EU

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2021 14:46

The government is advising people to move their businesses to the EU to avoid UK taxation and red tape.

Why would you do this?

For the interests of the uk?

Or is it about power WITHIN the uk?

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mathanxiety · 29/01/2021 05:06

What is the measurable loss to London?

www.reuters.com/article/britain-eu-markets-trading/brexit-big-bang-to-trigger-tectonic-trading-rift-in-europe-idINL8N2IY4MT
The following days will provide a first taste of the effects of the shift and regulators on both sides of the English Channel will be on alert for market dislocations on Jan 4, the first trading day of the new year.

The EU wants to reduce reliance on the City of London for financial services and see more euro-based trading in Frankfurt, Paris, Amsterdam and other financial centres in the bloc.

That will split Europe’s stock, bond and derivatives markets into two separate trading pools, raising concerns that investors will get less competitive prices.

EU banks must trade euro-denominated shares inside the bloc from Jan. 4, forcing them to switch from platforms run by the likes of Cboe Europe, Aquis Exchange, London Stock Exchange’s Turquoise and Goldman Sachs in London, to EU hubs they have opened in Amsterdam or Paris.

Most shares are still traded on their home exchange, but between them London platforms account for nearly all cross-border trading in shares in the remaining 27 EU states.

That amounted to 8.6 billion euros ($10.4 billion) a day collectively in October, or a quarter of all European trading, Cboe data shows.

David Howson, president of Cboe Europe, said almost all cross-border European stock trading will switch overnight.

The last time there was such a rapid shift in volumes was in 1998 when trading in 10-year German Bund futures by dealers in stripy jackets on the LIFFE exchange floor in London was lured by cheaper electronic screens to Frankfurt.

“It’s the biggest single share trading shift in the last two decades at least,” Howson said.

‘HUGE OWN GOAL’

For Aquis, more than half of its business will in future be in the EU rather than all in London, while Cboe is hopeful that clearing in share trades could move from rivals in London to its own clearing house in Amsterdam over time.

Goldman Sachs expects half the daily trading in shares on its Sigma-X Europe trading platform to shift over time to its new Paris hub from London.

Cboe held a simulation exercise on Dec. 5 and Howson said this revealed its customers expect to shift all their trading in European shares to EU venues.

Another of London’s top money spinners is its trade in trillions of euros in derivatives. This anomaly, which dates back to 1999 when Britain opted out of the euro’s launch, has seen a dominant share of trading in euro-denominated swaps take place in the capital.

The Bank of England has warned that trade in interest rate swaps worth around $200 billion could be disrupted, because banks operating in Britain and the EU must trade inside their own jurisdiction, or on approved platforms in New York.

It may force Britain at the last minute to ease its restrictions on swaps trading to minimise disruption.

Erik-Jan van Dijk, Achmea Investment Management’s head of treasury and derivatives, said regulators have already taken steps to mitigate some of the risks by allowing EU banks to continue clearing their derivatives in London temporarily.

But trading will have to move, and some counterparties with existing swaps contracts in Britain were reluctant to shift them before they absolutely had to.

“We may leave some existing positions in the UK and we might choose not to do business with those UK counterparties in future,” van Dijk said.

Bank of England Governor Andrew Bailey has said he will have all its “armoury” at hand, although so far regulators say they do not expect any threats to financial stability.

“You can’t rule out that there will be some particular disruption given the scale of change, but overall we are satisfied there has been good proactive management of the risks across the system,” Nikhil Rathi, CEO of Britain’s Financial Conduct Authority, told Reuters.

The first day of trading in January may even be a quiet one as volumes could suffer if some market participants sit on the sidelines to see how the dust settles, Cboe and Aquis said.

In the longer term, the focus will be on just how much the volumes build up inside the EU and fall further in Britain.

“It’s not the start of the end of London, but it’s pretty bloody embarrassing and a huge own goal for Britain,” said Aquis’ Haynes.

mathanxiety · 29/01/2021 05:14

HannibalHayes
By the looks of it, we're the only island in the top 50.

Clavinova
And 23 out of the 27 European Union member states are in your top 50 as well.
...Missing the point spectacularly, once again.

mathanxiety · 29/01/2021 05:27

No doubt we should have stopped free movement of people from the EU on 31 January 2020 - oh wait...

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/01/spate-of-possible-uk-coronavirus-cases-from-2019-come-to-light

@Clavinova
Actually, it might have been smarter to quarantine British nationals returning from skiing holidays in Italy and other covid hotspots.

Peregrina · 29/01/2021 06:38

The first day of trading in January may even be a quiet one ......

Whoops! How many billions of trade left on 4th January? It wasn't a trivial sum.

QueenOfThorns · 29/01/2021 07:17

Lots of flag waving on the front of the papers about the Novavax vaccine, and how it’ll be made on Teesside. Unfortunately for the English nationalists, I read the other day that that’s only the protein component - the adjuvant is manufactured in Sweden.

Peregrina · 29/01/2021 07:28

I saw the flag waving too, and was pretty disgusted. This is a world crisis and we need to be working together to co-operate, and especially to get vaccines to those poorer countries who will find it hard to vaccinate their populations. But hey they are only black and brown skinned people, so they don't count as far as the jingoistic press are concerned.

TheElementsSong · 29/01/2021 07:47

The irony about the jingoistic vaccine flag-waving is that the scientific teams involved are likely to consist entirely of the kinds of liberal-metropolitan-elite-expert-multinational-multicultural, Enemies of the People, Citizens of Nowhere, that the ToryBrexitannianPatrioticPress love to whip up hatred against. But right now their existence and usefulness is allowed to be acknowledged, because their intended audience want to fart across the Channel.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 29/01/2021 08:45

@ParadiseIsland the uk is nit hogging vaccine it has bought lots of vaccines as nobody knew what would work , plus we don't know if we will require yearly etc
Most richer countries have ordered more than they need
Also uk have donated heavily to the covax scheme, one of the biggest.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 29/01/2021 08:48

@Peregrina and your aware then that uk has heavily donated to covax scheme, people also being happy another vaccine may be approved and partly made in the uk from most was more about jobs , any country is happy if a factory or manufacturing plant opens as it means jobs.
Most of the vaccines have components from various countries as well.
Do you think the eu handled this well ?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 29/01/2021 08:58

Do you think the eu handled this well ?

Were not part of the EU so what difference does it make? Or doesnt jingoistic support count unless the EU are 'losing'?

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2021 09:15

You know its possible to think the EU have had a complete car crash over the vaccine but also think its an awful thing, whilst thinking its great the uk have been on the ball.

Novavax is being made in Teeside and two eu plants so it should improve the situation for all - which is in the UK national interest.

It is not in the UK national interest for the EU to be struggling for vaccine. Not least because of that issue with Ireland / NI border (which also means the UK can never be NZ which seems to have escaped the brain cells of far too many people).

This week has been handled dreadfully. Undermining the AZ vaccine in the way it has been rather than carefully managing a decision about data and effectiveness was appalling. It is detrimental to both the UK and EU.

The flag waving has been nasty. And whilst the EU management of procurement is bad and i dont think the UK should be held back by it, i perfectly understand why the EU are so desperate. I shudder at where we would be if the uk hadn't moved as quickly as it did too. Because actually moving faster will have benefited the EU indirectly because it will take pressure off later and production started earlier and can be ramped up earlier. And since its a global issue that all has a chain reaction which ultimately benefits the UK.

What gets me is the complete lack of joined up thinking and understanding of interconnectivity and mutual interest whilst understanding the need to manage domestic political issues. That's applicable both here and abroad.

In the meantime its devastating for the economy. We need to trade. That means we also need the EU open for business.

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thecatfromjapan · 29/01/2021 09:19

Completely agree, Red.

DGRossetti · 29/01/2021 09:20

Looks like a flood of Hong Kong immigrants is likely.

news.sky.com/story/hong-kong-new-uk-visa-route-to-open-for-up-to-three-million-people-12201782

DGRossetti · 29/01/2021 09:22

In the meantime its devastating for the economy. We need to trade. That means we also need the EU open for business.

The phrase about not ignoring a dragon when you live next door to one springs to mind.

In this case, it should be not needling a dragon ...

TheElementsSong · 29/01/2021 09:24

You know its possible to think the EU have had a complete car crash over the vaccine but also think its an awful thing, whilst thinking its great the uk have been on the ball.

Agree.

The EU look like they're having a shit show presumably due to being slow off the mark in procuring their vaccines, and I am fucking delighted that the UK acted quickly and (importantly) backed the right horses in procuring our vaccines.

But flag-waving about it? Just grim.

(BTW, isn't the Novavax actually not scheduled to be delivered until the second half of this year? I thought I read that somewhere.)

Peregrina · 29/01/2021 09:34

Has the EU handled it well? No. Has the USA handled its whole Covid 19 response well. No. Why do the matter when we are not a part of either? Because it's a global crisis which needs global co-operation which all the jingoistic claptrap from the media won't promote.

As for Raab making visas available to some Hong Kong citizens: that should please Corcory, but I bet your bottom dollar that it will piss off a lot more Brexit True Believers. They won't be able to pin that one on the EU although I daresay that they will have a bl**dy good try.

DGRossetti · 29/01/2021 09:34

Odd this didn't flag up earlier. Oh well. better late than never. What's the real story here ?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/27/review-of-uk-workers-rights-post-brexit-is-axed-in-sudden-u-turn

A controversial review into how EU employment rights protections could be changed after Brexit is no longer going ahead, the business secretary has announced.

In an interview with ITV’s Peston, Kwasi Kwarteng said: “So the review is no longer happening within the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS). I made it very very clear to officials in the department that we’re not interested in watering down workers’ rights.”

He added: “I can’t have been more clear about this on a number of occasions. I’ve said repeatedly that Brexit gives us the opportunity to have higher standards and a higher growth economy and that’s what officials in the department are 100% focused on.”

prettybird · 29/01/2021 09:41

The fact that the EU is calling on AstraZeneca to publish the contract suggests to me that there is a "Best Endeavours" clause in it - whereas there isn't necessarily a "Best Endeavours" clause in the contact with the UK government. Hmm

I'm not a lawyer, but I do recall when I was negotiating multi-million euro contracts when I worked in telecoms, our lawyers never allowed me to agree to a "best endeavours" clause in the contracts, because of the onerous requirements that would ensue. All we would accept was "reasonable endeavours". In the telecoms world, that would be the difference between, in the case of an outage somewhere remote, having to hire a helicopter and team, even if it cost millions, or just getting to the outage by road to fix it.

DGRossetti · 29/01/2021 09:49

As for Raab making visas available to some Hong Kong citizens: that should please Corcory, but I bet your bottom dollar that it will piss off a lot more Brexit True Believers.

Good.

However, on the basis I can't see China (no matter how many gunboat the UK sends in) letting 3,000,000 out, there has to be a set point at which something goes "ping".

(Although now I think about it, I would actually not be that surprised if China just called the UKs bluff and offered to pay the 3,000,000 air fares of any Hong Kongers wanting to leave for the UK. £2,000 should cover it)

borntobequiet · 29/01/2021 10:01

More on eels and fishing in general:
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000rlp2

Notable for Gove being as slimy, disingenuous and obfusticating as only he knows how.

SabrinaThwaite · 29/01/2021 10:12

I’ve said repeatedly that Brexit gives us the opportunity to have higher standards

A bit disingenuous. Being a member of the EU didn’t stop the UK from having higher standards either.

DGRossetti · 29/01/2021 10:15

@SabrinaThwaite

I’ve said repeatedly that Brexit gives us the opportunity to have higher standards

A bit disingenuous. Being a member of the EU didn’t stop the UK from having higher standards either.

Oh, quite.

but oddly under-reported. Which suggests something behind it that isn't a great story for the government. What has prompted such a U-Turn ?

I'm reminded of last years IMB flashpoint where - after the mother of all very public battles - Boris meekly took the offending bits out without any concession from the EU (in fact, quite the reverse).

RedToothBrush · 29/01/2021 10:36

David Allen Green was saying that the best efforts clause may not protect AZ for various reasons. But it does sound like the uk has a contract which offers guaranteed delivery rather than best efforts.

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ListeningQuietly · 29/01/2021 10:39

I made the mistake of watching a bit of BBC News at 10 last night.
I lasted less than 10 minutes of the Jingoistic, Xenophobic willy waggling before I turned off.

Who gives a shit whether its made in Teeside.
Where are the glass vials and syringes and needles and PPE made ?

prettybird · 29/01/2021 10:53

@RedToothBrush

David Allen Green was saying that the best efforts clause may not protect AZ for various reasons. But it does sound like the uk has a contract which offers guaranteed delivery rather than best efforts.
So as I suspected then?

"Best endeavours" or "best efforts" could override "guaranteed delivery" Hmm

The way the lawyers explained it to me was that if it was physically possible, no matter the cost or the consequences , under "best endeavours" it would have to be done.

So the opposite of what certain people have been implying: that the EU screwed up with its contract Confused Maybe it's the other way around Shock

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