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Brexit

Westminstenders: Move Your Business To The EU

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/01/2021 14:46

The government is advising people to move their businesses to the EU to avoid UK taxation and red tape.

Why would you do this?

For the interests of the uk?

Or is it about power WITHIN the uk?

OP posts:
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UltimateFoole · 27/01/2021 09:56

It requires a quite radical ideological shift.

But, frankly, reality has shifted.

The old discourses that described capitalism and arranged its victors and losers, does not adequately describe present reality.

Because the reality is that businesses and even the finance sector have been shafted. Along with all their workers.

^ This

Peregrina · 27/01/2021 09:57

Labour is afraid of losing potential voters.

Labour seems more hung up about the lost Red Wall voters, and is in danger of losing potential voters elsewhere, without getting the Red Wall back.

thecatfromjapan · 27/01/2021 10:13

I couldn't open the New Statesman article, HesterThrale, but the Isn Dunt article and Dodds' speech were fascinating.

Thank you. 💐

RedToothBrush · 27/01/2021 10:29

Im aware of how labour members hate Starmer. Im also aware of how unrepresentative of the population Labour members are. I can't say i have a particular high opinion of most of the Labour members i know (there are some very brilliant exceptions though).

There is a problem here just as much as Tory MPs are grossly unrepresentative of the population.

There is a huge number of the population (one of the largest groups) who are conservatives with a small c. And theres the small business owners who always were represented but now find themselves fucked in a billion ways.

The uk having vaccine whilst others don't doesn't bring back jobs. Others will catch up with vaccine. But the job issue isnt going anywhere fast.

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XazieRose · 27/01/2021 10:34

@Peregrina

Labour is afraid of losing potential voters.

Labour seems more hung up about the lost Red Wall voters, and is in danger of losing potential voters elsewhere, without getting the Red Wall back.

Biden wouldn’t have got in without partially rebuilding the Blue wall in Pennsylvania etc.

That is bound to be influential in strategy circles at the moment. And they’re not wrong.

ListeningQuietly · 27/01/2021 10:38

My Labour MP has largely walked the tightrope well
but I am very angry that he voted for Johnson's Brexit
and I'm even angrier that he has not had the courtesy to reply to my correspondence.

I'm not sure who I will vote for at the next GE
because I am utterly homeless

  • Pro Europe
  • pro business
  • pro Women
  • pro environment
am I so weird, that no party wants to court my vote ? actually don't answer that Wink
ListeningQuietly · 27/01/2021 10:41

There is no Blue Wall in the USA
Blue voters are clustered in urban areas
Red voters are spread out on the range

borntobequiet · 27/01/2021 10:48

Part of problem is that it’s very hard to sell the sensible centrist middle ground, which is probably what appeals to the majority in England at least. Blair managed it because he was young, engaging, a very good speaker plus had prepared well over a number of years. Cameron because he sold himself as heir to Blair (ie successful and moderate) and his persona as affable toff went down well. Johnson’s instincts are probably so inclined but he’s too damaged a personality and weak in intelligence as well as deeply in hock to the nastier elements of his party to turn himself from a grasping dilettante to a proper statesman. It’s a shame because you sometimes get a glimpse of what “good Boris” might be like. (I expect that’s part of his appeal to women as well.)

SabrinaThwaite · 27/01/2021 10:48

Re the “Blue Wall” of Democratic voters:

Interesting correlation between the cotton belt and Democrat voters.

geog.ucsb.edu/how-presidential-elections-are-impacted-by-a-100-million-year-old-coastline/

Westminstenders: Move Your Business To The EU
Westminstenders: Move Your Business To The EU
borntobequiet · 27/01/2021 10:53

Sabrina I heard that on the radio as well. I’ll try to find a link to it. It’s fascinating. There’s also a book that relates voting patterns in the UK to geography and history, unfortunately my daughter borrowed it at the start of the first lockdown and I can’t remember title and author (old age).

SabrinaThwaite · 27/01/2021 11:02

More winning:

Lough Neagh eel fishermen will have to find new markets for a fifth of their catch due to Brexit and the operation of the Northern Ireland Protocol.

It means finding new buyers for 50 tonnes of eels, worth £500,000, just months before the start of this year's season.

The fish would traditionally have gone to Billingsgate Market in London and been sold as jellied eels.

But the complexities of Brexit mean that trade is no longer possible.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55818519

RedToothBrush · 27/01/2021 11:04

[quote SabrinaThwaite]More winning:

Lough Neagh eel fishermen will have to find new markets for a fifth of their catch due to Brexit and the operation of the Northern Ireland Protocol.

It means finding new buyers for 50 tonnes of eels, worth £500,000, just months before the start of this year's season.

The fish would traditionally have gone to Billingsgate Market in London and been sold as jellied eels.

But the complexities of Brexit mean that trade is no longer possible.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55818519[/quote]
And restaurants are not an option.

They are fucked.

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DGRossetti · 27/01/2021 11:11

Meanwhile, on another planet, someone seems to struggle with English.

Westminstenders: Move Your Business To The EU
PawFives · 27/01/2021 11:11

It will be really interesting to see where party politics goes from here - although right now we have the stress of living through it. There are so many variables including the split in the Tory party which is perhaps more hidden to the average voter (and similar in the US Republicans actually). Splits in Labour is a more familiar narrative to voters, a Tory party that has seemingly abandoned business and especially small businesses less so. Add in the pandemic, ‘identity politics’, the fact the UK ‘constitution’ isn’t fit for purpose, the right wing media and enfeebled BBC etc. and you have a perfect storm. It will settle eventually but until then it’s very much ‘may you live in interesting times’.

PawFives · 27/01/2021 11:13

Just realised I missed out the impact of Brexit, economic and political too - and on this of all threads!

HesterThrale · 27/01/2021 11:17

@thecatfromjapan
Here is the text of the New Statesman article.

When last January I spoke to a host of former and current Treasury officials and advisers about the criteria for the role of shadow chancellor, and asked them to name possible candidates, Dodds was one of only eight names that came up. While I think there are several more names who were overlooked by my participants, the reality is still that the post of shadow chancellor is very difficult to fill and there are probably no more than 40 sitting MPs who can do it across both England’s major parties.

So in many ways Dodds’ big speech today was the closest a politician gets to a home fixture – her ability to give wide-ranging speeches about the challenges posed by the changing economic, ecological and social tides is why she is shadow chancellor.

It was these sections that represent a new coherence to Labour’s thinking under Starmer: Dodds, and by extension the leadership, set out what she believes to be the big present-day challenges facing the British economy. Yes, she warned that the “benign conditions” currently allowing the United Kingdom to borrow freely and invest may not persist forever and the government should not assume they will, but she added that, at the present moment, the UK’s economic problem is not a sudden rise in interest rates: it is low income growth, the longest squeeze on wage growth since the Napoleonic Wars, the challenge of rebuilding the economy after coronavirus and tackling the climate crisis.

But it was also a tricky assignment because of the political challenge: to set out Labour’s new fiscal framework.

The challenge that any Labour shadow chancellor has is that John McDonnell – with the aid of his economic advisers – set out in the fiscal credibility rule a fiscal framework that is a) supported by the majority of economists b) firmly within the new consensus advanced by the IMF and other global institutions c) able to command the support of the Parliamentary Labour Party but is also d) associated with a Labour leader who by the time of the party’s 2019 election defeat was incredibly unpopular and e) old news.

So the question is, how do you retain the strengths of McDonnell’s fiscal credibility rule while shedding its weaknesses? Dodds’ answer was to expand it: she laid out new and stronger means by which a Labour government would make sure it kept its fiscal promises, by giving a greater role to the National Audit Office and making the Treasury more transparent, and committing to a new, additional test of government spending: its environmental impact. Although the explicit wording of McDonnell’s rule – that in normal times governments should run a day-to-day surplus while borrowing to invest – was never mentioned, its implicit logic ran through the speech.

Of course, the big challenge for Dodds – and her opposite number, Rishi Sunak – is that at present, the fiscal credibility rule is in any case in abeyance: because the UK is in crisis conditions, the priority at the moment is to fight the recession. The trade-offs of “normal” conditions don’t really apply.

Today, Dodds achieved a politically remarkable feat: she attracted a glowing write-up from the FT’s influential economics editor Chris Giles and an approving tweet from James Meadway, the adviser who more than anyone bar John McDonnell himself shaped the Labour Party’s economic strategy under Corbyn. For all her undoubted qualifications for the job, Dodds may find that maintaining both of those achievements is an impossible task.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2021/01/anneliese-dodds-mais-lecture-articulates-labour-s-new-approach-economics

I like this bit:
“...a new, additional test of government spending: its environmental impact.”

SabrinaThwaite · 27/01/2021 11:17

Hands up who remembers Johnson explicitly telling NI businesses that there would be no checks in goods travelling from NI to GB?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/08/boris-johnson-goods-from-northern-ireland-to-gb-wont-be-checked-brexit

UltimateFoole · 27/01/2021 11:21

@borntobequiet

Sabrina I heard that on the radio as well. I’ll try to find a link to it. It’s fascinating. There’s also a book that relates voting patterns in the UK to geography and history, unfortunately my daughter borrowed it at the start of the first lockdown and I can’t remember title and author (old age).
Is it this one? The Shortest History of England, by James Hawes
DGRossetti · 27/01/2021 11:34

It will be really interesting to see where party politics goes from here - although right now we have the stress of living through it

Get ready for the next wheeze to ensure division. A referendum on capital punishment. Almost a clone of Brexit watch as it creates a(nother) WILL OF THE PEOPLE cascade of division with a 50.1% majority over 49.9%. Splitting both main parties down the middle and allowing the Tories to effectively annihilate Labour for a century.

The narrative will be "Brexit is failing, because we aren't stringing people up". We already know posters that would buy that by the caseload.

DGRossetti · 27/01/2021 11:35

#123 in a series of (ironically) cut out and keep snippings Clav won't be posting.

northeastbylines.co.uk/job-losses-announced-at-nissan-sunderland/

Only a few days after stating all was well at their Sunderland plant, Nissan announced today that 160 jobs are now at risk. They confirmed that they are starting a consultation process with office-based staff. Although they say it will not affect production, this news is in stark contrast to their positive statements of last Friday which led Boris Johnson to boast of the “fantastic news for the brilliant Nissan workforce”. Not so amazing for the office staff though as it turns out.

(contd)

DGRossetti · 27/01/2021 11:41

One for our great grandchildren to read in history books.

Westminstenders: Move Your Business To The EU
PawFives · 27/01/2021 11:45

“Get ready for the next wheeze to ensure division. A referendum on capital punishment”

Oh God, I just know you’re right DGR

DGRossetti · 27/01/2021 12:05

@PawFives

“Get ready for the next wheeze to ensure division. A referendum on capital punishment”

Oh God, I just know you’re right DGR

It will, of course be painted as "The Tories delivering democracy".

It's a pretty safe bet, as we know it won't be well off white men that dangle. No matter how many they kill. But it will split the Tory and Labour parties further.

RedToothBrush · 27/01/2021 12:21

Im going to have to be difficult aren't i?

"Can you remember what the capital of Ireland is? Yes thats right its Belfast"

Ffs. Lets just erase history, geography and politics and teach 5 and 6 year olds bollocks.

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JustAnotherPoster00 · 27/01/2021 12:23

It's a pretty safe bet, as we know it won't be well off white men that dangle.

Lets start out with peadophiles because thats an easy narrative to push for capitol punishment, then any dissent can be batted away with, why dont you want to deal with child rapists, then the mission creep will start