What have we gained by Brexit/leaving the EU?

[Elephant4]

In simple terms.

I've read so much about what we've lost.

Please no sarcastic comments. I just want to know what we've gained - probably best if those who think Brexit is a positive thing post.

Israel hasn't paying more, they agreed to help Pfizer in ongoing research into the long term effects of their vaccine...in other words a massive ongoing ph3 trial, which we will all benefit from.

Both perhaps? Discount because they are doing so well with their vaccination programme? Who knows?

Thursday, December 31, 2020
The prime minister has said his new friendship with Pfizer's CEO got Israel toward the front of the line. Israeli officials have indicated the country paid a higher price than other countries. One Health Ministry official told local media Israel paid $62 a dose, compared to the $19.50 price tag in the U.S. In a statement to NPR, the Israeli Health Ministry did not confirm how much it paid, citing the "sensitivity of the subject," but Israeli Finance Minister Israel Katz said the higher price was necessary considering Israel was vying for vaccines among much larger countries.

Israeli officials believe the country's fast vaccination campaign could provide an early model for countries.

"One of the reasons why Israel was given some of the vaccines [may be] so we can study in advance to see how such a big effort takes place," said Dr. Boaz Lev, who heads the Health Ministry's advisory committee for prioritizing how COVID-19 vaccines are distributed.

16 November 2020
American government will be charged $39 for each two-shot dose, and the European bloc even less, but Jerusalem said to agree to pay $56.

www.timesofisrael.com/israel-will-reportedly-pay-more-than-us-eu-for-pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine/

Did you listen to the R4 Nick Robinson interview with Kate Bingham?
Fascinating & she has done a great job.

No, I will look for it later.

@DoubleTweenQueen

The vaccine - it could all have been done as it is being done, without us leaving the EU. Brexit was unnecessary to achieve our temporary approval of the Pfuzer-BioNTech vaccine through MHRA and early roll-out. It is not a Brexit issue or gain. The end.

This is not true, in spite of your hopeful "The end". Germany was under political pressure to handle vaccines centrally after their own PPE fiasco, which is why there has been such uproar there. What is to say UK would not have been subject to similar political pressure if they had still been viewed as part of the group.

It's quite interesting to read back over media articles 6/8 months ago when people were 'up in arms' that we weren't joining the EU vaccine procurement scheme. Turns out it was a good call.

The Commission and Member States have agreed on a joint action at the EU level. The Commission plans a centralised EU approach to securing supplies and providing support for the development of a vaccine.

27 countries acting as one hasn't really worked that efficiently (surprise surprise). I'd put money on Germany taking a different path if faced with this again.

It's quite interesting to read back over media articles 6/8 months ago when people were 'up in arms' that we weren't joining the EU vaccine procurement scheme. Turns out it was a good call.

Not forgetting how throughout 2016-19 we were forever being told that EU medicines would no longer be sold in the UK...

@FuriousWithTheNHS

Ah, the British world beating bollox, for the rollout of a vaccine invented by a German couple, produced in Belgium, by an American firm

So that'll be the Pfizer vaccine then? Interesting you should choose to use that as your example of something the British didn't actually do well. What about the other one? You know, the main one we are using because it's better and more stable to transport. What about that one?

The Oxford vaccine was a wonderful achievement, but the institute where it was researched is staffed by 68 EU scientists (out of just over 300) and gets a lot of its funding from the European Commission.

link - so luckily just in time to avoid the Brexit fan, but the govt hadn't said how they will replace EU funding. I work in a research field in the EU and we apply for grants from the country, the devolved administration and the EU, but the big money (and the prestige it gives the research) comes from the EU. Don't try and pretend Brexit is a win for science.

13 pages. Any genuine benefits? Fir the person the street not big business.

Less regs on GM foods is a NEGATIVE.

gets a lot of its funding from the European Commission You mean partial return of the untold billions we've paid them over the years? The EU doesn't fund anything, it merely redistributes member states money that it extorts. Better we don't have to hand it over to them in the first place,.

Here's 4 gains.

1. We are not part of the EU's disgraceful investment deal with human-rights abusing, China.

1. We are way ahead of the EU on vaccine roll-out. If we were still in the EU we would probably only have been able to vaccinate a few thousand people so far.

1. We have reclaimed some of our fishing waters, in contrast to the SNP's wish to give them all away to Brussels.

1. We have already rolled over numerous trade deals - something Remainers are clearly gutted about and falsely claimed would be impossible for many years, if ever.

You mean partial return of the untold billions we've paid them over the years? The EU doesn't fund anything, it merely redistributes member states money that it extorts. Better we don't have to hand it over to them in the first place

Do you mean things like european regional funding? we can now distribute these funds as we wish, yet Cornwall (and others) will get 1/3rd what they would have...... seeing as Cornwall voted Leave, thats a brexit win!

Just because the Govt has funds returned, doesn't mean they will spend it on the right things but agree its our govt's choice now.

The Oxford vaccine was a wonderful achievement, but the institute where it was researched is staffed by 68 EU scientists (out of just over 300) and gets a lot of its funding from the European Commission

Good stuff. They didn’t leave in 2016 then they must be quite happy still working in good old ‘racist’ U.K.

Quentin
www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/brexit-deal-secures-uk-access-european-research-funds

@Jaypreen I'd rather that money went to the EU and back into important research than never left the pockets of Johnson's cronies, yes.

If you can, imagine you're a postdoc. You need to do research in labs to expand your portfolio (researchers are expected to make connections overseas). Now, a skilled worker permit will cost your (or your uni...) £8419 in total... as opposed to nothing if you go to Germany, for example. In EU unis (such as the one I work for) this money comes out of the grant, but the UK won't get the grant any more, and the employer has your salary to cover. You will also face the NHS surcharge that is being introduced (even though your salary will be taxed and you'll be one of the least likely demographics to use the nhs.)

You'd just choose Germany.

Maybe British scientists could face lower competition with fewer international colleagues to compete with but... a lot of the department heads are actively seeking EU institutions to move their groups to. Although sadly they probably won't take their British colleague with them, because it's too expensive.

We are not part of the EU's disgraceful investment deal with human-rights abusing, China

Or our trade deals with Saudi Arabia, sucking up to a regime that butchers journalists in foreign embassies.

Please don't pretend the UK won't be sucking up even more to China and other terrible regimes.

But the foreign secretary (Raab) held back from imposing sanctions against any individual Chinese officials responsible for human rights abuses
But he will ensure UK companies don't use slave labour.... woo wee!

@HeyHeyImABeLeaver that article references the horizon2020 project which is great, but it was always goigg be to be agreed as the proposals for those projects were submitted and accepted years ago. It would cost more to go through the hassle of redistribution.

Your link also says "for the next seven years." Scientific progress takes years and years. What happens after that?

@HeyHeyImABeLeaver

Lol!
UK pays significant amounts of money into the EU's Horizon program BUT we have zero say in how it is spent...... sounds like a great deal... for the EU.

Why are the fishermen complaining then? I saw today that the Scottish fishermen were demanding compensation from the Government.

It was supposed to be New deals, not expending effort to (partially) replace what we have already. I saw in today's news that imports of bananas from Ghana have been hit with a tariff.

All I've noticed is that the secondhand coat I wanted to buy on Ebay from Lithuania now costs 20% more (wish I'd bought it before 1st Jan) and the glasses I waited to buy from MisterSpex will now also cost 20% more, I suppose we'll get used to having to pay 20% more for everything that comes from Europe. I know that it's not all about money, but it;s the first thing that I've directly noticed.

Your link also says "for the next seven years." Scientific progress takes years and years. What happens after that?

Yes, I’m aware of that but seven years is better than none which you were making it sound like In your post. Who knows what will happen in the next 7 years, or what their budget distribution for sciences will be, the EU could be a completely different animal by the time COVID is paid for.

Good stuff. They didn’t leave in 2016 then they must be quite happy still working in good old ‘racist’ U.K.

I think you must be being deliberately toady @HeyHeyImABeLeaver .. but I'll bite anyway.

They can't leave because leavers removed their right to come back. Even if they have families and British born kids.

Scientists move around all the time. The EU has paid for me to spend three lovely months at Cambridge, an incredible opportunity and the work from those collaborations is ongoing, will result in joint publications which benefit both parties and countries.

think you must be being deliberately toady @HeyHeyImABeLeaver .. but I'll bite anyway

Not toady or goady for that matter

@HeyHeyImABeLeaver

Your link also says "for the next seven years." Scientific progress takes years and years. What happens after that?

Yes, I’m aware of that but seven years is better than none which you were making it sound like In your post. Who knows what will happen in the next 7 years, or what their budget distribution for sciences will be, the EU could be a completely different animal by the time COVID is paid for.

Well, the eu put a 4€ billion surprise boost into horizon 2020. The science budget goes up year on year.

Boris promised a UN science funding plan back in March, with much pomp, which has been... "delayed."

You seem to be lauding the horizon2020 agreement as a success, when it is basically people being allowed to finish their projects.

but agree its our govt's choice now This is precisely the point. If you I don;t like how the money's being spent we can express our displeasure at the ballot box at the next GE.

@jasjas1973

We are not part of the EU's disgraceful investment deal with human-rights abusing, China

Or our trade deals with Saudi Arabia, sucking up to a regime that butchers journalists in foreign embassies.

Please don't pretend the UK won't be sucking up even more to China and other terrible regimes.

But the foreign secretary (Raab) held back from imposing sanctions against any individual Chinese officials responsible for human rights abuses
But he will ensure UK companies don't use slave labour.... woo wee!

So you are trying to equate what the EU has done, [ie endlessly bleat on about its noble commitment to human rights, the environment and 'rules-based systems' - then rewarding China by signing a huge investment deal. With what you imagine we might do !

Why do you hate this dislike this country so much? Is it because you think people like me don't therefore you have to?

@Toptotoeunicolour What's to say? A member state's perogative under EU law.

What might we do? Rush into a deal with China as soon as we can.