Brexit - 90 day rule for UK citizens in the EU

[Hollybutnoivy]

Does anyone know how this will work? I'm resident in the EU but afaik the 90 day rule still applies - or is this different within Schengen because I can't see how it can be applied? Living relatively close to several borders mean we often pop over* to another country- I don't have an EU passport though.

*not at the moment obviously!

The confusion here is due to a conflation between the 90 day rule applied to the whole of the Schengen area for British passport holders, and the normal FoM rules that applies to EU citizens seeking to move between member states.

Schengen residents are also subject to a three month rule even if they hold an EU passport. If one of my children (FR nationals living in France) wanted to move to say Belgium, after 3 months they would legally be required to register as resident i.e. prove they qualified for residency under EU FoM criteria.

In practice though, both my kids (EU nationals) and I (UK national with EU residency) could go on a six month EU road trip without worrying about the three month rule, as long as we were self supporting. The main difference is that if during our trip one of my kids wanted to take a job in Belgium or Italy or Spain, they could do so with no formalities, whereas I would need a work visa.

So if you wanted to go on a 6 month road trip around Europe (self supporting) could you do it now from the UK?

So if you wanted to go on a 6 month road trip around Europe (self supporting) could you do it now from the UK?
With a British passport and completely within the EU? No.

Even with a visa? Presumably you can do this in the USA for example as long as you get a visa? Seems a bit daft if not. There's loads of retired people who spend all winter touring Europe in their campervans. I would imagine the EU would rather they spent their money there than not.

"Some EU countries also offer along stay tourist visathat is usually valid for one year.The criteria can be quite tough – you need to evidence that you can support yourself for the year that you’ll be in the country, have medical insurance and you won’t have any rights to work."

I guess this would be the best option.

@Campervan69

"Some EU countries also offer along stay tourist visathat is usually valid for one year.The criteria can be quite tough – you need to evidence that you can support yourself for the year that you’ll be in the country, have medical insurance and you won’t have any rights to work."

I guess this would be the best option.

Individual countries offer non-lucrative visas for a year. The requirements as to income vary, and you need comprehensive health insurance for the whole period.

However, the visa, where available, is for each country on its own, not the Schengen zone - as per the advice from the Spanish government
"Foreign nationals who hold a valid long term national visa can move freely through other Schengen States for a maximum of three months within any six month period, so long as they meet the entry conditions."

Thanks. Do you know who offer this? Spain is a lovely big country you could happily spend a year touring around. I guess those countries who offer this will get the tourism.

Also could you do 3 months travelling through and end up in the country you'd got the visa for? That might be an idea if so.

@Campervan69

Thanks. Do you know who offer this? Spain is a lovely big country you could happily spend a year touring around. I guess those countries who offer this will get the tourism.

Also could you do 3 months travelling through and end up in the country you'd got the visa for? That might be an idea if so.

I believe Portugal, Austria, Spain, Germany and France offer various income based visas.

As to your second question, I don't know. It may that you would be allowed a certain period to drive to, say, Spain, but how long that would be I've no idea.

You would really need to research which countries offer income based one year visas and whether you can meet the requirements of any of them. If you could qualify for the visa for more than one country, you would then need to decide in which one you would be prepared to spend a chunk of time.

That's really helpful thank you. It is for my brother who is being made redundant in March and was going to travel for 6 months at least before looking for work. He has good savings in the bank so would be able to prove income no problem.

Campervan he'd not be entitled to movement in the rest of the EU beyond an additional three months outside of country of residence. It's unlikely anyone would check, particularly with a residency card, but his insurance would very likely be invalidated.

These are residency visas and not at all trivial to apply for. He would need to be able to prove that he had a place to stay like a long-term rental contract, as well, a local bank account with the required amount of money in it, proof of "passive" income etc and then apply to the consulate of country of choice.
They are designed for people moving to a specific country not really for travelling around. Unfortunately, as it stands there's no good option for that within the EU apart from being a citizen of an EU country or one that has FOM within it such as Norway or Switzerland.

Thanks. We've been chatting about it and he's decided to tour Scotland instead in the Spring and perhaps Cornwall in Summer. Then just do 3 months abroad in autumn and look for a new job when he gets back. All sounds too complicated now to go to Europe and we can meet up with him more easily for weekends etc if he's in the UK.

Perhaps Brexit will bring some benefits to the UK economy after all.

Campervan my heartfelt recommendation would be to go to Europe and Turkey. Scotland is great for campervanning but doesn't take that long. England I could never recommend, there are no campervan facilities anywhere and you're limited to campsites, and made rather unwelcome in a lot of cases.

France, Spain and Portugal are campervan heaven, so many aires where you can refill your water, dump your waste etc. Plus I can't even begin to describe the sights he'll see, and the weather is way better which is important if you're living in such a confined space.

Turkey looks truly amazing - cheap, friendly, excellent roads, great food and weather, highly welcoming.

I really didn't mean to put you or him off with the visa thing - we've personally been having to look into a lot of options recently due to the nature of DH work - but it's not impossible. You've got the full three months in Schengen and can get to Turkey quite easily if you get the ferry to Greece from Italy.

It will be the trip of a lifetime.

It must be possible to split a road trip between Schengen and Schengen-border states (including Ireland, where you can travel freely under the CTA), you'd just have to make sure that you got your passport stamped when exiting.

Really interesting to listen to all your advice for campervan trip in Europe. We are at the other end of the scale and heading into retirement.

We would definitely qualify as fully self supporting, but as we are happy to experiment by going over to Turkey that looks like an excellent option. It is a relief to find a loophole where we can still fit our dream trip into this political mess.

OverTheRainbowLiesOz that's my dream for retirement - 10 years away at least but I know many people who winter in Europe. Turkey and Morocco have been suggested as possible destinations but I don't like either culture, so sexist and I'm not sure safe for a woman unless accompanied by a man.

thegapdecaders.com/motorhoming-in-europe-after-brexit/ some advice here.

OverTheRainbowLiesOz have a look at Tread The Globe on YouTube. They were doing right around the world and got stuck in Turkey during lockdown and loved it so much that they still haven't left.
They are, admittedly, a couple and not a lone women but have seen a huge amount of welcome and kindness in what is clearly a hugely hospitable and very beautiful country.

There is also Kite Van Man who was similarly stranded in Morocco. That has a much less European look and feel than Turkey and I personally would probably struggle to do three months but many are I'm sure more intrepid than me

It doesn't have to be Turkey as there are other border countries to the east including some which are future EU candidates.

You could also presumably split your trip in Ireland - which isn't in Schengen - as long as you got your passport stamped.

If you can qualify for residency in one EU state you can probably travel as much as you like - I am planning some post COVID travel around the EU and don't anticipate any issues at all once I have my French resident's card.

Thanks for those suggestions. Reading the ideas will help fill lockdown. I really appreciate the links and ideas.

I forgot that Ireland isn't in Shengen. I love Ireland.

Fascinated by this plan (from Campervan69's link) and it makes me feel so much better that it is all still possible.

Van life after Brexit could look something like this;

July to September – Germany, the Alps and France
October to December – Morocco
January to March – Spain & Portugal
April to June – UK
July to September – Scandinavia
October to December – Turkey
January to March – Spain & Portugal
April to June – Ireland

We are a couple so not worried about being on my own. We travelled around India just before lockdown.

I can't see a way of qualifying for residency. Not lived in an EU country (just tourist) , no Irish ancestors and retired. Bloody Brexit is such a pain for everyone.

@OverTheRainbowLiesOz please anyone if I've got this wrong feel free to correct me but I'm sure as UK citizens we can still move to Ireland and after five years you'd be entitled to a passport? So that might be a residency route.

There are residency options for Schengen countries as well, although it's a lot more painful and expensive than pre-Brexit obviously. We're currently investigating to see if we can make Portugal work for our personal circumstances.

Thanks. Children in twenties currently living with us and reliant on our house in UK so not possible to move to Ireland. I'd love it, so maybe one day.

At least you know it's an option for the future, and that you'd love it, it's good to still be able to plan and dream

Hi @Hollybutnoivy, I'm a bit late to the party but I've just read the whole thread as I'm in a similar position to you. I hope you don't mind me piggybacking in case any new info comes to light. We live in France but my husband is a frontalier and works in Switzerland. We will be applying for Withdrawal Agreement Residence Permits on this basis. We've been here 17 years so our residency in France should be a formality. Like you I make a lot of trips into another Schengen country (in this case Switzerland, for medical treatment - there are no hospitals in my area of France) and am concerned about the 90 day rule. If a day trip counts as one of my 90/180 days in another Schengen country, if I have a period of intense appointments I could be pushing dangerously close to the limit. I'm curious that this is not really clarified anywhere.

Would Croatia also be an idea? Anyone campervanned there?