Brexit - 90 day rule for UK citizens in the EU

[Hollybutnoivy]

Does anyone know how this will work? I'm resident in the EU but afaik the 90 day rule still applies - or is this different within Schengen because I can't see how it can be applied? Living relatively close to several borders mean we often pop over* to another country- I don't have an EU passport though.

*not at the moment obviously!

You would travel within EU on the new Italian tessera, which is being rolled out from next month. It's a biometric card which proves you are EU resident.

It's a pity this seems to have been inadequately publicised

Residency in Italy doesn't give you a document that you can travel on. It's not an immigration document like it is in the UK. It's just a document everyone in Italy has to have.
So, if the OP were, hypothetically to be stopped at an EU border from Italy (unlikely on foot/car but not impossible in the future) then she'd have to show her BC ppt.

At the moment. It's all so up in the air still nobody knows.

OP, from reading this page ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/schengen_en and expat forums, I would say that UK citizens legally resident in an EU country in the Schengen area are still free to travel on leisure trips to other countries within that area.

Any checks in another country should only be on security grounds and you probably wouldn't be subjected to them. Having said that, UK Government advice for UK citizens resident in France is to carry their residence permit as well as their passport - I don't know whether you get a similar document in Italy.

What you can no longer do, AFAIK, is move permanently to another EU country to settle, without an appropriate visa.

@denny53 Sorry that's not true. I do not have an EU passport. Residency does not make you an EU citizen. My EU citizenship was tied to Britain being in the EU so the referendum removed rights I was currently using! (And was not allowed to vote against but that's been and gone now).

[quote Hollybutnoivy]@denny53 Sorry that's not true. I do not have an EU passport. Residency does not make you an EU citizen. My EU citizenship was tied to Britain being in the EU so the referendum removed rights I was currently using! (And was not allowed to vote against but that's been and gone now).[/quote]
So you don’t have a burgundy passport with European Union printed at top of front cover?

So you don’t have a burgundy passport with European Union printed at top of front cover?
Yes I do currently but as soon as I renew it, it will be blue without EU. British citizens in the EU do not get special treatment. We are British citizens, not EU citizens.

I understand OP. You have lost your freedom of movement, just like every other UK citizen.

Those who think that you have retained it because you are legally living in Italy are totally wrong. All you are doing is legally living in Italy. It doesn't give you other rights. It's very frustrating and I don't have the answer to your question, but I do understand it!

I feel like do much has been taken away from me by Brexit. We had hoped to return to another EU country but my partners job fell through. DP and the kids are all dual nationals,but now I will be subject to Visa constraints which is a headache most employers will want to avoid.

chersfrozenface Thanks! I'll have a look at that.

letempsdescathedrales Exactly!

Eng123 Sorry to hear that. I know it sounds ridiculous but the whole thing makes me feel quite claustrophobic!

@Farahilda

You would travel within EU on the new Italian tessera, which is being rolled out from next month. It's a biometric card which proves you are EU resident.

It's a pity this seems to have been inadequately publicised

Sorry, just spotted this. I’ve not seen anything about this, how is it different from my current biometric ID card? Is this supposedly the attestazione di residenza permanente (that my comune has not heard of but says I’m not to worry as I’m the mother of an Italian citizen)?

OP I’m the same as you, I used to travel a lot for work and we’d also just pop over the border into Switzerland, I was not so much concerned about travelling elsewhere but whether I’d be allowed back in. I’ve been told to travel with my ID card as proof of residence otherwise I risk being logged as an overstayer!

When we visit family we drive across 5 countries,all those saying " you have your oassportvstampednin all EU countries" are forgetting that the EU meant you don' t have frontier controls! Of course now being a national of a non EU national just means everything is a little harder than it was. I've been asked for id by the police on trains before, an EU passport was always enough. Now I'm probably going to have to keep tickets and childrens birth certs with me or risk further hold ups. Not to mention that driving in the EU now requires an IDP and additional insurance. Brexit means more red tape, expense and a limitations of opportunity to the average person, the only people benefiting are Farage, Mo, Bojo and their backers.

As far as I know the EU tessera simply replaces the old Carta Europea for those old enough and long enough in Italy to remember. It's just a confirmation of residency in Italy and not a travel document. Like we can have carta d'identita but it's not valid for expatrio.
It'd be fabulous if it were otherwise though.

@Melassa I have the attestazione but it is just a piece of paper. Actually I vaguely remember after reading your post that I read somewhere that we must make sure that our passports aren't stamped as we are resident in the EU and so it could cause problems. I guess then we will be treated as EU citizens as regards travel? Aargh I am such a nerdy rule follower that I hate the uncertainty!!

I've found the UK government advice for UK citizens living in the EU.
www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-italy

The travel section says "You should carry your residence document (EU document or new attestazione), as well as your valid passport when you travel."

I think it would be wise to check the expiry date on your UK passport and the rules on 6 months' remaining validity.

Chersfrozenface - thanks. That says From 1 January 2021, you will be able to travel to other Schengen area countries for up to 90 days in any 180-day period without a visa for purposes such as tourism. This is a rolling 180-day period. which is what I thought but still no info on whether anybody checks. I don't think they can!

It's probable they don't check too much as the likelihood of clocking up 3 months on average trips is small. You do get random checks at the Swiss border, as well as going into Croatia etc so if for example you were traveling to a holiday home in another country a lot it might get flagged. How does it work for other third country nationals like Americans for example I wonder?

@Hollybutnoivy really? I didn’t know that about the passport stamping, but it does sound odd, how will be stop an overzealous border policeman from stamping? I guess it’s only when flying from the U.K. that this will be a problem as there is no passport control anywhere else. I also wonder about the passport queues, do I accompany my DC on the EU queue? When going to the U.K. do they accompany me in the British queue (not BC alas)?

@TheSilentStars is this Guy V’s famous European citizenship thing? I thought that had died a death?

Usually dormant- yes I expect you're right. Also if you are actually living in 2 countries and overstaying, there's always the chance that a not-so-friendly neighbour could grass you up!

It is 90 days all together. So if a UK citizens does a long weekend in Barcelona (4days) and two week in Paris (14 days) that is 18 out of the 90 days allowance a year.

In your case you may just fall under the radar a little. You are a citizen in Italy and there won't be border checks between most EU countries. So you will probably get more days. The only ones that will register will be when you fly and go through border control or go on the ferry to Greece (that kind of thing).

Probably worth looking up what the existing rules are for third country nationals. So if an American has Italian residency, they have the same 90 day Schengen limit - what do they do now? It’s not a new problem.

I think in practice nothing changes if you are already resident in a Schengen country. By definition you will be present more than 90 days in the Schengen zone, since you live there.

You don't have other free movement rights, such as the right to work, claim benefits or join the healthcare system outside your host country, but you could easily go on a six month Schengen road trip and not have to worry about the 90 days.

U.K. citizens not resident in the Schengen area are caught by the 90 day limit though. Sucks to only have a blue passport in that case. Glad that's not me or my kids!

British citizens in the EU do not get special treatment. We are British citizens, not EU citizens.

If you are covered by the Withdrawal Agreement, you very much do have rights that other U.K. citizens don't have, including the right to remain longer than 90 days on Schengen territory. WA rights are significantly more generous than those available to other third country citizens, and to non-residence Britons from 1/1/21.

If you are covered by the Withdrawal Agreement, you very much do have rights that other U.K. citizens don't have, including the right to remain longer than 90 days on Schengen territory.
Hi - do you have a source for this? The government advice posted further up says that British citizens in Italy do NOT have a right to stay longer than 90 days in the Schengen zone.

Mmmh- when we met, my husband was not a Eu national, but resident in Italy for student purposes and he got a Carta d’identita’ with his Italian address and his nationality of birth (he since gathered a couple more ;-). That’s deemed acceptable to move around Italy, not always to cross borders outside EU, but as it would have your Italian address and it’s only ~20£ Id definitely suggest you get one, in addition to your U.K. passport. How anyone would count how long you spend outside the Italian borders...no idea. Unless they check hotel reservations. But not everybody goes to hotels these days (clearly, not these days these days;-) so I’d assume that you’d be able to travel unrecorded for some time. If you decide to suddenly settle somewhere else, that’s a different matter.