Brexit - 90 day rule for UK citizens in the EU

[Hollybutnoivy]

Does anyone know how this will work? I'm resident in the EU but afaik the 90 day rule still applies - or is this different within Schengen because I can't see how it can be applied? Living relatively close to several borders mean we often pop over* to another country- I don't have an EU passport though.

*not at the moment obviously!

What a ridiculous situation. I think it’s best to contact the British embassy in Italy.

I don't think you can get a visa to stay in for a full year consecutively, although I could be wrong. There's a various categories of multiple entry visas, but these stipulate no longer than 90 days out of 180 which is what anyone with a UK passport is entitled to anyway.
Or there are various residency visa options for individual countries but these do not include unlimited movement throughout the EU. In practice obviously there aren't borders and you're unlikely to be stopped but the insurance will likely be the stumbling block.

@Figmentofmyimagination first and only time I'll ever defend this government but they haven't removed the right of those of us already residing in EU countries. You can secure rights under the Working Agreement by arriving before 31st. I'm in France and lots of people have arrived in the last few months. We have to apply for residence permits by next summer but the requirements aren't too demanding.

It is lawful to not have right to vote if you are not a resident of a country anymore , i mean if you have lived in uk for years why should you vote about uk matters when you don't live there
If you have made another country your permanent home become a resident as thousands do who move to australia , america wtc
Scottish people living in england didn't get the right to vote in scottish independence either
Just because you were british if you have lived somewhere for 20
Years why should you get to vote

South Africans in the UK still have the right to vote.
UK citizens in the EU were directly and disproportionately affected by Brexit and not having a say in that was a disgrace.

i mean if you have lived in uk for years why should you vote about uk matters when you don't live there

I'd be quite happy with that as an idea as long as the quid pro quo was that the government that I can't vote for or against at GE time stopped taking tax off me......

....There are more than a few Brits who have left the UK but who by virtue of their UK pension and/or their employment ( hundreds if not thousands of tax payers are resident abroad but work in the UK ) still continue to pay income tax and also if still employed, national Insurance...after fifteen years they lose their right to vote..but still pay UK tax/NI.

I kind of understand the voting thing. I've been in Italy since 1994 and I do get why I probably forfeit my right to decide on the British govt. (And as some posters on here know, I do my keyboard warrior thing anyway ) But it does mean I can't vote anywhere at the moment except in some minor elections.

In a previous life I worked for a govt dept which would see expats of 2-3 generations with no discernible ties to the UK other than their passport wanting nationality for their grandchildren whose parents had never seen the UK never mind them.

That said, as @notimagain says, I also work for a UK company for several months a year, pay UK tax and NI. And own property in the UK from which the govt gets more from me.

We get to vote for fifteen years after leaving the UK but no longer have the right to vote in France, in my case.

My understanding is that a visa wouldn't cover a long trip or multiple countries for long campervan trip. But I'm not sure as it is a bit unclear. I'm looking on campervan sites for more information.

The Turkey option might be our best bet atm.

Not being entitled to vote in a GE after an extended period out of the country is one thing.
Being denied the right to vote in a "once in a generation" referendum that disproportionately affects your rights, as is the case for many UK subjects (I can't really call them citizens) living in the EU is quite another. You only have to read posts on here by Leavers saying, "Well, I'm not fussed about FOM, study abroad or the right to live and work in an EU state, so I'm alright" to see how this works out.

Not being entitled to vote in a GE after an extended period out of the country is one thing. Being denied the right to vote in a "once in a generation" referendum that disproportionately affects your rights, as is the case for many UK subjects (I can't really call them citizens) living in the EU is quite another.

Very much agree with all of that, including the subjects vs. citizens comment.

Clavinova has already been on these threads earlier to say that Labour took the right away - perfectly true, but you need to remember that it was a manifesto commitment of Cameron's to extend the franchise. Somehow, he didn't bother.

OP I'm an American who lived in the Schengen area for the last decade (with legal residency). You are right that driving around Schengen there are usually no checks. If you really want to be careful (I don't think it's necessary though) you can use an ATM to withdraw money in your home country on either side of your trip, as bank statements are a common way to demonstrate your location for immigration types.

Flying within Schengen there may or may not be checks. If there are just go through the non-EU line.

Good luck with the citizenship app!

Not being entitled to vote in a GE after an extended period out of the country is one thing.

Many (most?) countries allow citizens to vote regardless of their residence status, because they have a commitment to giving their citizens a democratic say. Post Brexit, many Britons have been left with no vote anywhere. I have fewer democratic rights than a pre-suffragette woman of my age and class.

Auldalliance- I completely agree. The reasoning behind us not having a vote seems to be that we are not invested in Brirish politics anymore. I can understand that for a GE but the referendum was a vote to take away the rights we were actually using!

Just to be clear, I don't actually think that the 15-year ceiling is justified even for a GE, and many countries comparable to the UK don't have similar rules. Leaving people disenfranchised as Mistigri is is unacceptable.

However, I was really pointing out that applying that rule to the Brexit referendum, especially when Cameron had included scrapping it overall in his electoral pledges, was particularly small-minded and undemocratic.

auldalliance that was exactly my point. The Brexit campaigners understood the appeal of simple slogans and superficial concepts like ‘why should you get a vote if you don’t live here anymore’. But the world is more complicated than that. There is something profoundly illiberal about encouraging people to build a life and then interfering with their rights to peacefully enjoy that life. The European Convention on human rights is there largely to prevent the tyranny of the majority, which is precisely what we have seen with this referendum. Long term, it is a profound breach of trust and an insult to innate shared ideas of what amounts to a civil society. The long-term lesson is that the UK government is not predictable and cannot be relied on.

More prosaically, it has left people with serious problems eg unable to bring spouses home unless they can satisfy an earnings test, unless they rush home in the next 18 months. It is quite extraordinary really. Populism at its worst and very un-Conservative in the former sense of the word (before they were taken over.)

I had often wondered how an educated civilised society could fall under the spell of Nazism. Now I know: incrementally, bit by bit.

The un - Coservatism bit is the part which baffles me. I (used to know) moderate Tories - why aren't they up in arms saying that these aren't their standards.

Figmentofmyimagination
Yes, you were very clear, and I fully agree. I was just restating my position in case anyone thought I was oddly fine with the 15yr rule. I'm not.

There have been various cases brought before courts around the EU, with the aim of moving up towards higher jurisdictions, but to no avail thus far. The Shindler case was rejected because the judges ruled that there was no evidence at that time that Brexit adversely affected UK citizens living in the EU. That does leave the door open for future cases when that evidence emerges, as it will. But you're right that the basic principle of the referendum itself, combined with the 15yr rule, seems to breach human rights legislation. (Though we know what the current UK authorities think of human rights...)

I vote in a country I left 50 years ago.
THe UK is the oddity

You ALREADY have a residency permit (VISA) to live and work in Italy (EU).

Therefore you do not need an additional visa for stays in Italy (EU / Schengen) longer than 90 days, because you already have one.

The 90 day stay is for visa free travel for tourism only for people who do not qualify for residency/work.

@RedToothBrush pretty sure that's not correct, I am a French resident but don't have the right to stay in excess of 90 days in 180 in other Schengen zone countries

I’m Another French resident and have to agree with Nomad..FWIW from French Gov website (CDS FAQs)

“ Besides the holders being able to settle in France, the residence permits will allow them to travel in the other Schengen Area countries for periods of less than three months.”

I remain clueless and it slightly worries me as I will need to travel for work at some point. Our main office is in Lille and my boss is in the NL. Let alone holidays. The voting thing pisses me off as I am effectively disenfranchised come April. I started my request for nationality last Feb, but it went a bit on hold due to Covid. I will resurrect in January. It annoys me that I need to do it as we planned to live in other EU countries before/during retirement and it seems a huge thing to do just to keep the rights we already had. As I have a nearly Uni age dd, keeping HER options fully open is the most important thing at the mo.

Also agree with Nomad (permanent resident in Italy here). My understanding is that our rights to stay under the Withdrawal Agreement don’t extend to free movement in other Schengen countries- our protected rights are related to our country of residence. Unless you get citizenship and then you are back to full EU rights