The Silence is Deafening

[Crankley]

For the last however long, I have read threads and posts by Remainers stating confidently that the Prime Minister wanted a No Deal, would get a No Deal. Here are just a few quotes. Some Remainers may recognise their own predictions:

'He is going to give us No Deal and then fuck off into the sunset with millons in bungs from his crooked mates,'

'I'm pretty certain on no deal...'

'I fully expect a No Deal Brexit.'

'Bojo will 'deliver' no deal and then F off into the sunset'

'Boris Johnson and your disingenuous divs - How dare you try and spin a NoDeal'

'He was elected to not get a deal and to make his supporters feel good about the fact the had stuck it to the man (or something).'

There are lots more if you want them.

Now he has obtained a deal, where are all the threads by remainers? Do any have the the guts to hold up their hand up and say 'I was wrong'?

Weird post but I'll try to reply:
Firstly I've seen loads of Brexit posts so not exactly a "deafening silence"
Secondly as a remainer I'm happy about getting a deal, so much better than no deal, but I'd still have preferred to remain so it's all relative.
Finally, I absolutely will hold my hand up and say I was wrong when the NHS is receiving 350 million a week or whatever sum was promised
And when we turn into the land flowing with milk and honey that Brexit promised us, or when the EU start doing dreadful things to member states and we're counting our lucky stars that we escaped.
If those things happen I will shout "I was wrong" from the rooftops and be happy about it.

Right now? We have a deal.... fab but there's still a long (and in my opinion unnecessary) hard road ahead.

I know people are saying "but I used to be able to do...., or I now can't do....". But that is on a personal level. I can still travel (post Covid) all over Europe and the rest of the world just like I always have.
I try to think what is best for our country overall.

I don't understand this. UK citizens won't all be able to travel all over Europe as they did over recent decades, so their freedoms have been curtailed while yours apparently have not.
How does that tally with your concern for what is best for others rather than just you?

Oh and I do believe Bojo will trot off into the sunset as soon as he can, not that I'd blame him really but he won't stick around.

I'm happy with this Deal and it is near to what I envisaged as how it would pan out when I voted Leave in 2016.

I'm happy with the 'slapping on tariffs' on either side if they significantly under-cut the other - it works both ways, affects only the sector/sphere involved and up for arbitration.

Quite happy with the Fishing Deal - as pps have said it's transitional and gives time to build a modern fleet (hopefully smaller boats) and upgrading processing facilities. With interim Grants paid to the UK Communities affected and a compensation package for the EU Fishing communities negatively impacted.

EHIC - I always got Health Insurance when I holidayed in the EU anyway.

"it works both ways, " yes, because we are an economic equal to one of most powerful trading blocs. We become rule takers. Arbitration 😂😂

I think that most people accept that Brexit has happened but the fight isn't over by any stretch of the imagination. Young people and students have been fucked over especially. In 10-15 years, those people will be starting to enter the corridors of power.

Even before then, there is much that can happen: the Northern Irish protocol and Tory disdain for the Scottish people will likely weaken the union further over the next five years (I think Irish unity and Scottish independence is now a question not of if but when - gonna suck when you lose your red white and blue fish to an independent Scotland LMAO).

The deal is terrible versus staying in.
But better than no deal.

Why do people assume that remainers aren't pleased about a deal? It's not the deal I would want, but it's still much better than the dumpster fire that no deal would have been (and which Kent had a taste of this past week).

Indeed so. Why are Leavers trying to rewrite history, and tell us that Remainers didn't want a deal? Remember, 'No Deal is better than a bad deal'. This wasn't a Remainer slogan. We now have a damage limitation exercise, that's much better than nothing and most Remainers are likely to welcome that.

And Yes, Biden winning the election, and strongly identifying as Irish, did thrown a spanner in the works.

Brexit is apparently done so why the childish jibes? There are still threads about it and very informative threads they are too so there's not a deafening silence that's bullshit!
We shall see what happens but doesn't this deal still have to be approved by 27 member states and Parliament, I am glad there's a deal but when I have time I'll read some more information about it and then draw my conclusions as I do not trust Bozo or his cronies in government one iota and I'm thinking they've sold us out.

EHIC - I always got Health Insurance when I holidayed in the EU anyway.

Did you ever go to North America? You will find that your health insurance then was substantially more, so unless the Global HIC comes into force, EU insurance is likely to go the same way.

Hello 'Spanner.

I know you don't like the ECJ (btw ECJ never over ruled our laws) but how do you feel about the new joint EU/UK Tribunal that will enforce any divergence that the UK might wish to undertake in the future? the effect will be to impose tariffs on the relative sector, so Govt decrees we can give a competitive adv to an industry but the EU over rules that!

How can anyone invest in new boats and take up fishing when we get back just 25% of our quota, this is why the fishing industry and coastal communities feel let down by this deal and have said so quite vocally.
Govt is investing 15m over 3 years in small scale coastal fishing, most of which is on safety and port facilities.

Don't disagree with a points based system, though the issue may well be that skilled people don't want to come here, regardless of what we want.

We lose access to sensitive real time criminal databases, that'll make us all safer wont it lol!

Just because you don't wish to live or work in the EU doesn't mean it doesn't affect others who do, some people will be hit very hard but that doesn't matter because you won't be.

Govt is investing 15m over 3 years in small scale coastal fishing, most of which is on safety and port facilities.

That doesn't actually sound like very much money to me. How much does a fishing boat cost for a starter?

I suspect the GHIC will slightly worse than what we have now with the EU with the reciprocal cover we already have with some non EU countries rolled into it with great fanfare... with BJ boasting we have these extra countries because we left the EU.

We know that the ERG explicitly wanted No Deal because they said so. And we know Boris is tight with the ERG. But they wanted a managed No Deal on U.K. terms which was not on offer from the EU. The EU only offered real No Deal with the merest of contingency terms.

We know - as far as we can ever know anything printed in the DM but they are at least a mouthpiece of the Tories - that Boris offered VDL “tariffs for freedom” at a late stage in negotiations and was turned down flat. That was a version of No Deal. Diplomats and the media blamed Merkel for it’s failure, claiming it was because she doesn’t trust libertine Boris (who does?). But the EU were never going to accept that and only miscalculation and fuckwittage on the British side led them to believe they might.

Prior to that it was very difficult to call which way Boris was going to jump. It was difficult to know whether his swashbuckling jingoist No Deal talk was just silly buggers or whether he really was that stupid.

Once “tariffs for freedom” was knocked back the only way forward was for the U.K. to capitulate completely, which they did, with a few face-saving concessions. The EU got pretty much the deal that they put on the table at the start.

So we have years of price rises to look forward to as customs procedures add time and money to the cost of importing goods. And years of businesses folding as customs procedures fuck up existing complex supply chains and JIT models and prohibit further investment in the U.K.

The less informed, less educated Leavers may crow as they believe they have won the battle, but the they have lost the war nonetheless. They just don’t know it yet.

Nigel Farage, one man, who has made his entire career about this one issue and would have had a vested interest in keeping the conversation alive. I certainly don’t think he would, in reality, managed to drive 4 1/2 years worth of campaign, legal threats and all the other shenanigans that the ardent remainers have. And even if he had been able to mount such a campaign it doubt it would have been so thoroughly abusive.

@ChristmasinJune

Oh and I do believe Bojo will trot off into the sunset as soon as he can, not that I'd blame him really but he won't stick around.

I think so too... PM salary is too small for his big family. Plus too much work to do....

If either the UK or the EU digress from agreements in a major way then we will have INDEPENDENT arbitration...not the ECJ.

And Hate, I can still travel all over Europe ....which bit can't I travel to?

We have a good deal as far as I am concerned.

I know that some people on here live and work in the EU because I have followed these threads since 2016. But for those who live and work in the UK we should be supporting our country not constantly running it down and predicting disasters.
We really have had enough dire predictions like George Osbourne's emergency budget if we voted Leave. No leave voter that I know predicted unicorns or sunny uplands. We wanted an independent country that made its own rules. Finally, we have it. I am puzzled as to why anyone should be sorry about that.

@yellowspanner

If either the UK or the EU digress from agreements in a major way then we will have INDEPENDENT arbitration...not the ECJ.

And Hate, I can still travel all over Europe ....which bit can't I travel to?

We have a good deal as far as I am concerned.

I know that some people on here live and work in the EU because I have followed these threads since 2016. But for those who live and work in the UK we should be supporting our country not constantly running it down and predicting disasters.
We really have had enough dire predictions like George Osbourne's emergency budget if we voted Leave. No leave voter that I know predicted unicorns or sunny uplands. We wanted an independent country that made its own rules. Finally, we have it. I am puzzled as to why anyone should be sorry about that.

Because other people get how global trade functions on the 21st century.

If you don’t understand the problems we have created for ourselves in advance, you will have ample time to consider them at length over the next 10 years.

We don’t make our own rules btw, we are bound by EU rules without any say in them, even outside it, because we needed a trade deal with them. The thick ERGers thought they could create a hard right Singapore style low tax, low regulation economy on the EU’s doorstep, but that was doomed from the start.

If either the UK or the EU digress from agreements in a major way then we will have INDEPENDENT arbitration...not the ECJ

The ECJ is independent (staffed by judges inc UK ones or it was) it enforces EU rules on any member state that breaks them... just as this Tribunal will, it is a court in all but name.

It can overrule Parliament.

So we have years of price rises to look forward to as customs procedures add time and money to the cost of importing goods

Already started, i deal with some German bicycle suppliers, 3, from the 1/1/2021, have stopped shipping to the UK, those that have continued to ship have increased prices.

Which means UK suppliers can hike prices too, which they have done, less competition but the market is buoyant so (some) people can afford it.
This probably doesn't effect 'Spanner so she doesn't care.

What a thoroughly unpleasant post. Are you this spiteful in real life?

Believe it or not, some of us remainers just wanted a nice peaceful Christmas after a really bad year. I've been trying to avoid smug, goady posts from mean-spirited posters who just enjoy poking at other people's unhappiness. But sadly I misclicked and here you are, driving the division in our land which the Brexiters claimed to want to eradicate.

I'd wish you a happy new year but you don't seem to deserve it.

We are not bound by EU rules. Both sides have agreed principles by which they will trade. If either side break them in any significant way there may be consequences. I have no problem with that. If we decide to increase state subsidies we can. If we decide to reduce VAT or capital gains tax we can. Of course there may be consequences but the rules apply to each side. The independent arbitration applies to trade and trade alone. It is not a court it is an arbitration service.
I understand very well how international trade works. I am employed in trade. But I voted leave for reasons of sovereignty and choice. We can now choose to have trade deals with other countries. We can have an immigration system that suits us. We can state aid out tech sectors and if that means tariffs then so be it.

@GordonsAliveAndEatsPies
"but I do believe that whilst leavers would have accepted the result in 2016, ardent retainers just never did."

Yes because accepting a vote based on LIES and a campaign funded by dark money is what educated rational people do isn't it? Is that what democracy is? Telling people the next say that the quote on the MF bus was not correct and expecting those of us who are actually aware and know about the intricacies of our connections with with EU to accept that?

That's poorly worded, we knew the quote on the bus was a lie btw. It worked though. How gullible people are and how much poorer we'll be because of it.

We always could change Capital gains tax yellowspanner. It has never had anything to do with the EU.