The Silence is Deafening

[Crankley]

For the last however long, I have read threads and posts by Remainers stating confidently that the Prime Minister wanted a No Deal, would get a No Deal. Here are just a few quotes. Some Remainers may recognise their own predictions:

'He is going to give us No Deal and then fuck off into the sunset with millons in bungs from his crooked mates,'

'I'm pretty certain on no deal...'

'I fully expect a No Deal Brexit.'

'Bojo will 'deliver' no deal and then F off into the sunset'

'Boris Johnson and your disingenuous divs - How dare you try and spin a NoDeal'

'He was elected to not get a deal and to make his supporters feel good about the fact the had stuck it to the man (or something).'

There are lots more if you want them.

Now he has obtained a deal, where are all the threads by remainers? Do any have the the guts to hold up their hand up and say 'I was wrong'?

its just plain wrong to take medical staff from developing countries

19 Dec 2020
"The story of German Health Minister Jens Spahn and Judith Heepe, the nursing director at Berlin's Charite Hospital, is a little like the tale of the hare and the hedgehog. Heepe, like the wily hedgehog, is somehow always faster."

"In September 2019, Spahn was in Mexico signing a contract to speed up the process for Mexican nursing staff to receive work permits in Germany. Heepe had already been there. A month before that, Spahn had sent his state secretary to the Philippines on a recruitment mission. Heepe had been there, too."

"That's why she has not only flown to Mexico and the Philippines, but has also been to Albania and made approaches in South America. Soon, Charite also wants to bring Brazilian nurses to Germany. "The market in Germany has totally run dry,"

www.dw.com/en/covid-short-on-icu-nurses-germany-looks-abroad/a-55992531

Oh, so what Germany is does is right now?

Okayyyyyy...

[quote Clavinova]How about the UK permanently lifts the cap on training UK students as doctors

Yes - if we can afford to.

gets serious about the nursing bursary

Personally, I think we should see whether this initiative works first before re-introducing a full bursary;

"All nursing students on courses from September 2020 will receive a payment of at least £5,000 a year which they will not need to pay back."

www.gov.uk/government/news/nursing-students-to-receive-5-000-payment-a-year[/quote]
So the Government has replaced the old £10k - £16k bursary with a £5k - £8k one?

Doesn’t seem like taking it seriously to me.

INCOMING SQUIRREL🐿 🐿🐿 (thought I would get in there first😉)

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-bame-eu-parliament-members-ethnic-minority-a9315036.html

Yes, and that can be taken as an area where the EU seriously needs to up its game. Which the UK as a member could have had a leading part in.

And there you go. Immigration AKA racism was the main driver of Leave voters...

Yes Clav i was waiting for that or something similar.

But this is about the UK, not justifying poor behavior.

However, if i was said Mexican nurse, with a choice of working in a well run well staffed German health system, with the ability to travel and work in another 26 countries OR the UK with its over stretched NHS where 30% of nursing staff want to leave (plus our weather) where might i choose???

Femi's got a few things to point out. Nothing we didn't know but nicely put in his usual way.

twitter.com/femi_sorry/status/1343611393879252996?s=21

And there you go. Immigration AKA racism was the main driver of Leave voters...

From the link;

“We didn’t ask people directly why they voted the way they voted, because people aren’t the best guides to how they voted,”

What nonsense is that?

Did you actually read the rest of the article?

Of course not, you were looking for an out of context quote as per usual

TatainiaBis - you really are scraping the barrel in picking holes in my phraseology and suggesting that the paragraph you pick out of mine says I blame FOM for the lack of non EU migration. What I was trying to say is that I want to see equality in our immigration policy for everyone no mater from where they come. I've never ever said I think FOM has stopped people from other parts of the world coming here. However anyone from the EU could come here whither we have a need for their skills or not. Given that their 'trade' was lower paid in their home country then it was of great benefit to them coming here. Employers then had a ready supply of trained people who were more than happy to take a position at a lower wage than would be acceptable to a locally trained person and or be able to keep wages low very easily as there was a ready supply of people willing to work for that lower wage.

In any case I really don't think comparing non EU immigration and EU immigration is very helpful. Both sets, I would suggest come here for very different reasons. I don't think we have many if any non EU plumbers or builders in the UK who have come here ready trained to take on advertised positions.

You really need to stop banging this "I'm not racist" drum.

OK, you didn't vote leave for racist reasons, but rather more people did. And you've helped their campaign. Not yours.

Own your shit.

You think EU migration has held down wages?

Well, i work in a hi tech industry with skills shortages and no eu workers, wages have been held down because employers have used the GFC to do so and we have have historically low levels of inflation.

You need to realize higher wages drives inflation and in an era of almost zero benefit increases and very low public sector wage rises, who is that going to hit the most?

Did you actually read the rest of the article?
Of course not, you were looking for an out of context quote as per usual

Of course I read the article. Out of context? I don't think so;

"Mr Harding added that the BSA survey didn’t question people directly on why they voted the way they did in the referendum, but rather assessed the correlations, which he said offered a more accurate insight."

“We didn’t ask people directly why they voted the way they voted, because people aren’t the best guides to how they voted,” he said."

"which he said offered a more accurate insight."

Exactly! You didn't mention that the first time...

I never claimed that BJ would definitely go for no deal. I was concerned that he might, but I always hoped that his courage would fail him and it did.

The deal itself is better than nothing, but it's hardly a great victory. It's significantly worse than the deal that we had when we were in the EU, which is what we expected all along. I haven't seen the Brexiteers queuing up just yet to tell us what the benefits will be. All I can see is what we have lost.

It's very sad but it's done now and we'll have to pay the price.

The deal may be great for fishermen but it's terrible for services which represents 80% of the economy. In particular it's bad for financial services which employs 1 in 14 people in the U.K. Also, many U.K. professional qualifications will cease to be recognised in the EU from 1st Jan. So no, as a Remainer I'm not holding my hands up to say I was wrong and Boris was right. Brexit is a disaster which Boris has lead us to.

And it's also disastrous for fishermen.

So a clean sweep!

HannibalHayes - if that comment is directed at me then I suggest you have a look at the Brexit boards over the last few years and see how often leavers have been called racist, me included. So why exactly should I not answer these who make these unfounded accusations. I far from the only one who have had this thrown at them.
Just how am I 'helping their campaign'?

Jasjas1973 I have no experience of your industry but i do of the building trade so it is of that that I speak. The point I was making is that if a UK plumber expected say £40k but you discovered that you could get one with the same experience from Eastern Europe who was more than happy with £35k why wouldn't you advertise for plumbers for £35k with agencies you know advertise in Eastern Europe. That has nothing to do with you or anyone else not being able to get a pay rise but that the going rate for the job goes down.

which he said offered a more accurate insight.

Sounds like nonsense to me;

“We didn’t ask people directly why they voted the way they voted, because people aren’t the best guides to how they voted,” he said."

It’s not a great deal for fishermen - they are upset.

And EU medical professionals have already been receiving emails from the govnmt telling them that their qualifications may not be recognised from Friday. How fantastic - just what this crisis needs.

It really is a bit much under the circumstances to post your goady thread, OP.

“We didn’t ask people directly why they voted the way they voted, because people aren’t the best guides to how they voted,” he said."

What's so difficult to understand about that? People aren't going to say "I voted leave 'cos I'm racist". But you can generally work it out from answers to other questions. Not least because they're not usually the brightest.

And Corcory, no, I'm not calling you a racist. However, I am pointing out that you sided with the racists and got them the result that they wanted, and that their leaders are now putting into practice.

How that isn't helping their campaign I'd like to hear...

I think it was sally067 who posted on another thread that her employers were moving the finance department of the company she worked for to an Eastern European country - they were going to pay the fully qualified and experienced accountant in the EE country something ridiculous like £15,000 pa - compared to the UK accountant who had been earning £60,000 pa plus.

@Corcory

You said that you feel that FOM gives preferential treatment to white European Christians. That you and your friends want immigrants to be able to come here whatever their creed/colour/country of origin:

I feel strongly that FOM within the EU is racist in itself in that it gives preferential treatment to mainly white Christians. I and my friends want immigrants to be able to come here what ever their creed or colour or country of origin

What does that mean other than preferential treatment of white Europeans is at the expense of other non-white, non-Europeans?

If that's not what you meant, fine, but that's what you said.

You claim to want equality in immigration policy for everyone no matter where they come from

But we already have this! You want something that already exists. Some people came under FOM rules and some people came on visas, as international students etc, but everyone across the world has been welcome. We don't have exactly the same policies for all, because immigration is closely tied to trade deals - to have the same immigration policy for every country in the world you'd expect to see the same trade terms.

If you want equal immigration policy unilaterally - either you want FOM for the whole world, or for nowhere. If you want FOM for all then why vote against it in Europe rather than campaigning to expand it? If you want it nowhere then you are, simply, just anti-immigration.

I suggest: 1. that you keep track of the cobblers you come out with and 2. that you keep track of actual immigration policy rather than the one in your head.