Westminstenders: Off he pops to Brussels

[RedToothBrush]

Alex Andreou @sturdyalex
There's no way Johnson has not already decided whether or not to concede on Level Playing Field. Which makes the trip to Brussels dressing. Whether it will dress a concession as "I have saved us" or No Deal as "I tried my best" remains to be seen. But the choice is already made.

Amanda Cole @amandajanecole
What's your gut feeling, will he put his job ahead of the country? Given his past self serving form?

Alex Andreou @sturdyalex
I think he is so cornered - and has done so badly on Covid19 - his instinct will be one last, double-or-nothing throw of the dice. Only no deal does that.

The issue is that coming back with a deal will earn him much heckling and zero back-slapping from his peers. But no deal will earn him just as much heckling, but also plenty of back-slapping. What I don't know is just how ominous the departmental briefings he's getting are.

Its also worth noting the following:

Mujtaba Rahman @mij_europe
I understand @BorisJohnson wanted @EmmanuelMacron & Merkel to join his phone call with @vonderleyen last night, but she rejected the idea

So even yesterday he was STILL looking to undermine the EU and split its leaders. After all this time and the number of times he's tried this on.

Have no doubt that a) everything will be blamed on Macron (probably personally, with Conservative hardliners coming out calling for the public to boycott French cheese and wine - I'm serious btw) and covid b) covid provides a handy distraction at least for the moment. It will be used accordingly - that means its possibly now not in Johnson's interest to stop a spike in January. All efforts will be put into the vaccine rollout for PR but thats going to hit the breaks fairly soon. No doubt the EU will be blamed for that too.

What I'm not anticipating is another full lockdown. I think at least parts of Greater Manchester will now get out of T3 on 16th December. Traffords numbers look exceptional and I think it politically impossible for Johnson to keep it in T3. Its Graham Brady's patch and Manchester as a whole looks far far better than T2 London.

Anyone who gets out of T3 before Christmas won't go back into it. I'm not anticipating London to go T3 unless No Deal turns really ugly and its useful to quell civil unrest.

I think if we head into no deal then tight restrictions won't be used for covid reasons no matter how bad the hospitals get - it will only be about civil unrest, it will all be about keeping the economy going - backbench revolts are what scare Johnson most, and he's already said no more Tiers after the start of Feb.

We shall see what the day brings...

It's almost as if Boris wants to see what no deal is like before he risks going any further.

They're like recalcitrant teenagers insisting that they should be allowed stay out all night because they are now (in their mind anyway) grown up, and informing they're parent that "You can't tell me what to do".

While at the same time saying "where's my dinner and did you iron my shirt?".

It's ridiculous, this "sovereignty and independence" business. No country apart from North Korea is truly independent these days. That's what a global economy means ffs.

No country apart from North Korea is truly independent these days.

Even they listen to China ... not as much as the UK obviously.

dd is nursing in London, and volunteered to work Christmas. This latest lockdown means her alternative Christmas dinner this weekend is cancelled, and because she is working 24th to 27th they've told her she probably can't come home as planned on the 28th .

I think she should pack her job in and come home. They are crying out for nurses here and she's been called "fucking Irish" three times in the last two days. The anti EU workers sentiment in London seems to be getting worse.

Meanwhile ...

@TurquoiseBaubles
That is shocking to hear about the abuse your daughter has had. I hope she doesn't think that it's representative of the vast majority here.

[quote TantieTowie]@TurquoiseBaubles
That is shocking to hear about the abuse your daughter has had. I hope she doesn't think that it's representative of the vast majority here.[/quote]
This, I really hope so as well absolutely shocking.

@ListeningQuietly

My tree is up but there is nothing under it. Struggling to stay positive.

Same LQ wrt the tree being up, but is the emptiest it's ever been underneath. No seeing my cousins down south as usual this Christmas (we typically exchange presents) or Aunt in London (ditto) or several groups of friends (ditto). Plus not wanting to spend as much with so much economic uncertainty all around. I'm trying to tell myself it's an opportunity to focus on the non materialistic side of Christmas, but not sure that's entirely working.

That's disgusting, Turquoise.

Interesting reference to Trafalgar.
WW2 terminology linked to Brexit has always bothered me.
We watched a 3-parter on iPlayer about the Norman conquest, and I realised some people still haven't got over that event, never mind more recent confrontations.

Turquoise my husband is Irish (as am I) and he had a job offer for a lectureship at a UK University back in 2006. He had to phone the UK government helpline to get his UK National insurance when he came over to start the job - and the woman at the end of the line heard his Irish accent and proceeded to tell him that 'you can't come over here and take our jobs'. Honest to God! The Government Helpline.

He got an apology.

@TantieTowie - That is shocking to hear about the abuse your daughter has had. I hope she doesn't think that it's representative of the vast majority here.

Any Irish person living in England (not so sure of the rest of GB) will more than likely have been verbally abused at some stage. It's varies from being called fucking Irish to "slagging" which in some ways, is almost worse as if you object you just get told it's a joke and not to take it so seriously. I lived there in the 80's when being called IRA scum was common.

But yeah, most people are lovely and have no issue with the Irish. Most are horrified by the likes of fucking Irish but not so much by the slagging.

My dad & Dh both Irish, were subjected to all lot of abuse over the years but last ten years or so rarely happened sad that it may be on the rise again ☹️

That's mad Tinselette .

To be fair, most patients are ok with her being Irish and many have Irish backgrounds themselves and love talking to her. She had one black patient last week who refused to let her treat him because she was "a fucking white cunt" which amused her rather than upset her.

Four of the nurses on her ward are Irish, and are often just called "Irish" by patients and families who can't be bothered to attempt to pronounce their names, all of which are perfectly normal names with phonetic spellings. No Tadhg's or Orfhlaidh's

Her current mission is to correct anyone who talks about "the Irish border". She insists on referring to it as "the UK border" as Ireland doesn't want it, the UK are the ones threatening to reinstate it. Though thankfully Boris seems to have temporarily given up on that.

The TL;DR from that Mail article is that Angela Merkel doesn't trust Boris.

No, it’s much more interesting than that. That’s just right wing spin.

If you read the small print - Boris offered VDL “tariffs for freedom” - which is a version of no deal. They wanted managed no deal on U.K. terms with some bilateral agreements. Turned down flat.

They thought EU would back down.

It wasn’t Merkel specifically, but the EU. It’s true Merkel doesn’t trust him as no-one with half a brain does.

Under the plan – to have been fleshed out at Wednesday's meeting between Mr Johnson and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen over a dinner of scallops and turbot – the UK would have effectively been released from the responsibility to follow EU rules in return for accepting that duties would be slapped on British exports to the bloc.

U.K. diplomats can try to blame Merkel but the EU were never going to allow that.

Source said ”We thought this would be the moment. But they just weren't interested. They won't accept that Brexit means setting our own rules.”

Great big miscalculation.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9047055/Officials-say-Angela-Merkels-distaste-libertine-Boris-Johnson-blocked-Brexit-deal.html

Yet another chum contract

I'd expected clav to have surprised us by now, by identifying a contract that wasn't given to a chum. We could then have fun finding the chum - though its probably akin to shooting fish in a barrel.

It seems to me that Boris just keeps going back with "we want no tariffs but we don't want to agree to your terms" and then being surprised when the EU says no

His attempts to divide and conquer by contacting/complaining about individual country's heads of state isn't going to work. The one thing the EU leaders will be over this is united (in public at least). They can't afford to be otherwise.

This quote from the Mail article:

"they fear the UK becoming a nimble, low-tax, low-regulation Singapore-style economy on their doorstep, one which would be far more attractive to business." sums up the utter ignorance of some of the commentators.

Do people really think that the EU should allow the UK to not bother with regulations, labour laws, food standards etc and still be able to freely sell to the EU? It's ridiculous. It's not fear, it's sticking to the ideals of the European Union, the reason it was formed in the first place was to ensure decent standards

@TurquoiseBaubles

It seems to me that Boris just keeps going back with "we want no tariffs but we don't want to agree to your terms" and then being surprised when the EU says no

His attempts to divide and conquer by contacting/complaining about individual country's heads of state isn't going to work. The one thing the EU leaders will be over this is united (in public at least). They can't afford to be otherwise.

This time they said they wanted tariffs ie no deal. The point of trade deals is to rid tariffs.

The EU can’t say no to no deal, as they can’t stop us from leaving, but they can say no to no deal on U.K. special terms.

The EU are effectively saying deal or real no deal - with no contingencies which not even Boris wants. Hence the capitulation.

Has Johnson capitulated?

@Peregrina

Has Johnson capitulated?

Personally, I reckon so.

Maybe he has more sense than we acknowledge, and to hell with the ERG. But just the same Dom is gone.

Excuse the simplicity of my language.

I understand that some rich folk have ‘shorted the pound’ (which I don’t understand) and need Brexit to happen so that whatever it is they’ve done pays out.

Is it enough for the U.K. to be out a few days/weeks for this pay out to materialise?

The point I’m making is - if the U.K. no deals for a few days/weeks (taking the whole fucking country down) , is this enough time for them to make their money before a deal is stuck?

@TurquoiseBaubles I’m so very sorry your daughter had to face that. It’s shocking.

As a teenager London sat staff, I remember a colleague telling me about a lady who came in grilling him about whether a product was from Northern Ireland as she hated those murdering bastards. Really went into one while he patiently responded in his Northern Irish accent.

He was commiserating with me after I was called a black bitch because we didn’t have an item in stock. 😢

Not that it should matter, but I was 16/17 and looked about 12.