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Brexit

Westminstenders: a feature of the system not a bug

960 replies

RedToothBrush · 25/11/2020 16:02

Tests on the new queuing system in Kent have revealed that lengthy tail backs are a feature not a bug.

We should get used to them because thats normal not the system malfunctioning, but the planned system working as designed.

Today we have found out that there's no money left. The economy is fucked. And tomorrow we will probably all be in T3 with the Isles of Wight, the tip of Cornwall and inner Westminster the only places left in T1.

Christmas has apparently been 'saved' though. Well if you are dumb and lacking in functional brain cells its 'saved'. Trade for Christmas is already thoroughly goosed and indoor family gatherings may come with a extra side of covid. The BBC have done an epic job of 'doommongering project fear' style graphics on this wonderful subject.

Tis the season to be jolly. Jolly fucked.

OP posts:
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36
TonMoulin · 30/11/2020 18:08

Isn’t that the same farmers that also voted brexit?

:(:(

This was so obvious. I remember talking about it during the campaign and wondering with a friend if a restructuring would be helpful in the long run (maybe not with the tories in charge).
I’m wondering what will be my PIL take on that (farmers and Brexiters...)

DGRossetti · 30/11/2020 18:11

Slightly OT, but of interest to some on this thread ...

www.nytimes.com/2020/11/30/technology/deepmind-ai-protein-folding.html

ListeningQuietly · 30/11/2020 18:19

..

Westminstenders: a feature of the system not a bug
ListeningQuietly · 30/11/2020 18:21

I would be interested to know what @Derxa feels about the proposed systems for farmers like her
and how the different nations compare
and which bits will need to be tweaked
because she understands more of it than most of us ....

pussycatinboots · 30/11/2020 18:43

LQ
😶

WhiskyForChristmas · 30/11/2020 19:24

@FatCatThinCat Yep. DH is Scottish but his (estranged, deceased) grandfather was Irish and I'm from an EU27 county. I naturalised, he got Foreign Birth registered etc. Total cost, incl. passports and official copies, would be around £3000 for both of us (around £1000 for DH, around £2000 for me). Way out of reach for many.

The rest of his family benefitted from us stalking down documents and the Irish registrars and consul were absolutely lovely, though. Can't imagine what it is like with children, it must be so stressful and costly.

wherearemychickens · 30/11/2020 20:17

I really don't want lots of farm bankruptcies or exits, just for the land to be snapped up by hedge fund investors and Russian oligarchs. Very depressing.

mrslaughan · 30/11/2020 20:34

Exactly @wherearemychickens
Mind you Johnson's government is doing a pretty good job of setting up the UKs own oligarchy(I wonder who gave him that idea...) - so we won't necessarily need the Russian ones....

wherearemychickens · 30/11/2020 21:12

And it's not like land ownership in this country isn't already massively unequal. It's basically 1% who own 50%, with a large number of descendants of Norman barons still doing quite well.

www.thelandmagazine.org.uk/articles/so-who-does-own-england

DrBlackbird · 30/11/2020 21:15

Is that what LQ meant about EHRC concerns?

"Modern feminism disempowers women...Feminism, like other forms of identity politics, has become obsessed with female victimhood" says Jessica Butcher recent Tory appointee to the EHRC.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/nov/30/politicising-ehrc-five-controversial-appointments

Honestly, those views seem absolutely fine as someone responsible for equality...

raskolnikova · 30/11/2020 21:30

About farms... so farms will go bust or become unviable, which will increase our reliance on imported food, at the same time as we're introducing massive amounts of friction and red tape for imports?

Is that right? Confused

ListeningQuietly · 30/11/2020 21:34

I found this article useful
www.economist.com/leaders/2020/11/28/british-farming-after-the-common-agricultural-policy
The Economist are very much free market
but also anti Brexit
so its nuanced
but cautiously optimistic

wherearemychickens · 30/11/2020 21:47

I agree being able to move away from CAP is a bone fide positive of Brexit, with the potential to be good - I just don't trust the current lot in charge to do the right thing.

Clavinova · 30/11/2020 22:10

Thus making farms available for purchase at a song. For Tory mates. Luxury flats a go go, and when you've run out of flood plains to build on you can flog the rest to your US firms to use to produce their delightful ranges of cheap food from.

"Tony Juniper, Chair of Natural England, said:"

"This plan marks an historic shift in the way we manage our land, setting us on course toward the production of sustainable food at the same time as rising to the urgent task if halting and reversing the decline of Nature."

"More than two thirds of England is farmed and this plan paves the way for those who manage the land to produce healthy food alongside other vital benefits, such as carbon storage, clean water, reduced flood risk, thriving wildlife and beautiful landscapes for everyone to enjoy." ...

Environment Secretary George Eustice:

"We want farmers to access public money to help their businesses become more productive and sustainable, whilst taking steps to improve the environment and animal welfare, and deliver climate change outcomes on the land they manage."

"Rather than the prescriptive, top down rules of the EU era, we want to support the choices that farmers and land managers take. If we work together to get this right, then a decade from now the rest of the world will want to follow our lead." ...

"Launching a Farming Investment Fund, which will support innovation and productivity. This will open for applications next year and will be used to offer grants for equipment, technology and infrastructure for the future."

A Scottish farmer phoned in to LBC this morning to say that he had already applied for an equipment grant two weeks ago, under a pilot scheme - he seemed happy.

"In order to ensure that farmers are adequately supported throughout this journey, a farming resilience programme will be made available throughout the first three years of the agricultural transition period to help those most affected by the phasing out of Direct Payments. This will help farmers plan and manage their businesses through the transition to the new system." ...

"Work is ongoing to design the future scheme in collaboration with farmers and land managers and will continue next year, with the expected launch of the National Pilot in late 2021, which will involve up to 5,500 farmers over a three-year period. This will build on the lessons from the 68 live tests and trials being carried out by farmers across England to assess how the fundamental building blocks of the scheme will work on the ground. This will ensure that the new scheme delivers for our farmers and land managers, as well as delivering greener, cleaner landscapes and reversing the decline of some of our most cherished species."

"Expressions of interest for the National Pilot are also expected to open early next year."

www.gov.uk/government/news/government-unveils-path-to-sustainable-farming-from-2021

Peregrina · 30/11/2020 22:27

You just know that a whole wodge of cut n' paste will be from Clavinova.

Who else actually trusts this Government to do something which will benefit the majority of the population? Let's see some informed comment from someone who actually knows about farming.

prettybird · 30/11/2020 23:11

I seemed to recall that the EU was reforming he CAP and addressing its more serious issues as well as incorporating environmental improvements - and lo, here it is Wink

They're still working on finalising this iteration - but I'm sure that the UK not being part of the process is probably helping Grin

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/food-farming-fisheries/keypolicies/documents/questions-and-answers-on-cap-reformm_en.pdf

I could C&P large sections but I'll trust those interested to take the time to read.

Essentially, amongst other things they're putting parts of the environmental targets into law rather than guidance - pesky EU caring about the environment Wink It's also looking to improve the issue of "unfair distribution" of direct payments. The focus seems to be on sustainability.

Why do I get the impression that the EU's proposals will be kinder to both farming rather than landowners and developers and to the environment than the UK's proposals?

https://ec.europa.eu/info/food-farming-fisheries/key-policies/common-agricultural-policy/future-cap_en

Chersfrozenface · 01/12/2020 07:56

Back to the borders for a moment - the BBC News website has a feature in the Reality Check section but currently flagged on the main UK news page entitled "Brexit: Will the borders be ready?"
www.bbc.co.uk/news/55134903

I rather liked this quote:
""This is the biggest imposition of red tape that businesses have had to deal with in 50 years," says William Bain from the British Retail Consortium."

Red tape. Hmm.

quiteathome · 01/12/2020 08:12

Just saw on a deals page that Sainsburys will be doing an offer of 10x bonus points on cupboard foods and non alcoholic drinks from the 4th December. Wondering if t is to get some stocking up done before the Brexit rush.

I am behind on the rest of the threads. Will catch up later

TatianaBis · 01/12/2020 08:36

The US, Australia, New Zealand and Canada all allow farmers to feed antibiotics routinely to livestock to make them grow faster, and in the US and Canada farm antibiotic use is about five times the level in the UK, data compiled by the Alliance to Save Our Antibiotics shows.

Meat produced in this way is cheaper, because the animals grow faster and can be kept in overcrowded conditions. But the meat is soon to be banned in the EU, for safety and public health reasons.

Antibiotic use in cattle in the US is about seven times that in the UK, and in pigs twice as high, according to the report. In Australia, the use of antibiotics in poultry is more than 16 times higher than in the UK, and use in pigs about three times higher.

Farm antibiotic use has risen in the US, Canada and New Zealand in recent years, and in Australia was rising in 2010, the latest year for which full data was available. Some of the drugs used are also problematic: the growth promoter bacitracin is used in the US, despite scientific evidence that it increases resistance to an antibiotic of last resort called colistin, used to treat life-threatening infections in people.

Cóilín Nunan, scientific adviser to the Alliance to Save Our Antibiotics, said: “Antibiotic resistance is a global problem, and we need to raise standards around the world to prevent it increasing. These free-trade agreements need to take that into account.”

Peregrina · 01/12/2020 09:02

Clavinova told us a few threads back (and I can't be bothered to look which) that antibiotic use was already high in Canadian farming. I assume she thought that would make it OK then because it wasn't just US mass consumption food which was crap.

With a different Government, I could believe that they might be interested in leading the way in reforming farming standards; with this one - no chance. They are wholly driven by money and enriching their mates.

TheABC · 01/12/2020 10:24

I am with the NFU on this one; it could be a good idea in principle, but no-one knows in practice without more detail. It's been a recurring theme this year and I fully expect it to continue.

The current bust-up on Covid-19 tiers in the Tory party is an interesting one; I did not anticipate such a strong reaction from them. The Government will get the Bill through, but it does not bode well for anything controversial on Brexit.

It's all such a mess.

Peregrina · 01/12/2020 10:47

The bust up in the Tory party on Covid-19 tiers can also be seen as a problem of their own making. If they had delegated the task of deciding the tiers to local public health expertise, and provided the finance for them to follow up, then we could have a much more sensitive tiering system - a high tier where infections are high, and lower where there is little. But no, it's all got to be done centrally, led by one of their unqualified mates.

Clavinova · 01/12/2020 10:48

prettybird
Why do I get the impression that the EU's proposals will be kinder to both farming-rather than landowners and developers-and to the environment than the UK's proposals?

Farmers Weekly -
"The Agriculture Bill has now been passed into UK law, representing a “landmark moment” for post-Brexit farming, say industry leaders."

"The new system will replace the Basic Payments Scheme (BPS), funded under the EU’s Common Agricultural Policy (CAP)–which Defra describes as “inefficient and largely bureaucratic”, skewing payments towards the largest landowners, based on the size of their land rather than rewarding farmers properly for the work they do."

www.fwi.co.uk/news/eu-referendum/landmark-moment-as-agriculture-bill-passed-into-law

"At the bill’s core is a shift away from direct payments to farmers based upon the amount of agricultural land they manage. This was a feature of the CAP that was heavily criticised as it pushed up land prices, creating an entry barrier for younger farmers, and benefited large landowners disproportionately."

You can't please everyone;

26 November -
"The CAP's first brush with the Green Deal last month resulted in a victory for Europe's politically powerful farmers, as EU lawmakers and ministers diluted some green provisions in the Commission's farming proposal."

www.politico.eu/article/timmermans-thunberg-cap-common-agricultural-policy-green-deal-climate-emissions-greta/

DGRossetti · 01/12/2020 10:58

The current bust-up on Covid-19 tiers in the Tory party is an interesting one; I did not anticipate such a strong reaction from them. The Government will get the Bill through, but it does not bode well for anything controversial on Brexit.

AS with the loons that voted for Brexit, Tory MPs that vote for things need to be reminded this is what you voted for dumbass.

Like Andrew Bridgen, who was muttering about "Boris had better get a good deal" (we'll put to one side the fact that Bridgen was telling us Boris' deal was the best in December last year).

Well, Mr. Bridgen. If you don't like it. Don't vote for it. And then fuck off.

Or, you could just fuck off. Either suits me.