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Brexit
Original poster

Westminstenders: Prepare for what we said would never happen

952 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/10/2020 12:52

I think that there may be a run on tinned tomatoes and pasta coming. Pizza will no longer have mozzarella in 2021.

On the plus side turnips are in season.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
43
AuldAlliance · 26/10/2020 15:23

A spot of soap opera to cheer you up (nor not...)?
twitter.com/mikegove12/status/1319525118473883648?s=20

TomMRiddle · 26/10/2020 15:27

You are misunderatansing that Canda plus plus point and a skeleton Candada deal is not a Canada deal.

The one Tusk proposed saw NI stay in the CU and single market

From 2017 when the EU formulated its policy it said that a full Canada style deal would not be possible.

Sostenueto · 26/10/2020 15:27

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pressure-mounts-on-rishi-sunak-to-reveal-contents-of-blind-trust-8zmshbxs9

So why does Sunak need to hide his investments then? He didn't under Theresa May but now he is?

SabrinaThwaite · 26/10/2020 15:38

@TomMRiddle

You are misunderatansing that Canda plus plus point and a skeleton Candada deal is not a Canada deal.

The one Tusk proposed saw NI stay in the CU and single market

From 2017 when the EU formulated its policy it said that a full Canada style deal would not be possible.

No, I’m not misunderstanding.

The misunderstanding is what a bare bones Canada style deal such as that proposed by the EU actually comprised compared to the mythical all-encompassing solves-all-the-problems Canada ++++++++ deal which Brexiters are complaining has been snatched away from them by the nasty EU.

Hence No 10’s whine via Twitter in February this year.

Westminstenders: Prepare for what we said would never happen
Original poster
RedToothBrush · 26/10/2020 15:50

WhatUKthinks: eu @whatukthinks
Latest @YouGov @thetimes poll. In hindsight #Brexit right 38 (-1); wrong 50 (+2). Fwork 21-22.10 (ch since 6-7.10). Record lead of 'wrong' over 'right'.

Well....

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 26/10/2020 15:53

@RedToothBrush

WhatUKthinks: eu *@whatukthinks* Latest *@YouGov* *@thetimes* poll. In hindsight #Brexit right 38 (-1); wrong 50 (+2). Fwork 21-22.10 (ch since 6-7.10). Record lead of 'wrong' over 'right'.

Well....

Funnily enough, DW has just completed a survey, and YouGov went titsup Smile
DGRossetti · 26/10/2020 16:05

Not 100% sure he's got it right ...

www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-brexit-deal-us-election-trump-biden-b1342230.html

DGRossetti · 26/10/2020 16:11

How do we all feel paying for the ERG ?

ListeningQuietly · 26/10/2020 16:30

DGR
That Independent article is about where these threads were before the massive marches - when we still had hope.

And La Braverman
rabbit in the headlights
so so thick

dontcallmelen · 26/10/2020 16:39

I’m just catching up had a few days away, really sorry to learn that BCF is no longer on the threads, I learnt so much from her & was an education in learning how Germany has handled the pandemic plus many other random titbits of German life, anyone who is in touch with her please could you pass on my heartfelt thanks & best wishes.

mrslaughan · 26/10/2020 16:45

That braver man interview- just wow.
Despicable bunch

TomMRiddle · 26/10/2020 16:53

You are misunderstanding that slide did not show what the future relationships would be like it showed what was possible given the UK's red lines.

It's not evidence that a Canada deal was offered, an exact Canada deal was ruled out by the EU in 2017 .

It was never on the table previously because future arrangements were not allowed to be discussed till exit terms had been agreed. So no, no Canada deal was ever offered a few years ago.

DGRossetti · 26/10/2020 16:58

The only time I remember Canada being mentioned in the past from the Brexiteer Brigade was basically to say that it was nowhere near good enough for the UK and that they were rather insulted that anyone thought it was.

And frankly, given the state of the world, it doesn't matter if it's true or not, does it ? I think it is, and that's all that matters.

TomMRiddle · 26/10/2020 17:03

I seriously feel that we are constantly fighting a disinformation game played by the leave campaign and tories. The tune changes every 5 mins and it's almost like the chaos of it all works in their favour. People just repeat what ever comes out of hq like its gospel.

ListeningQuietly · 26/10/2020 17:10

There is no Leave campaign.
We left on 31st January.
Now its about the remaining weeks of Transition.
look forwards not back

TomMRiddle · 26/10/2020 17:12

The leave campaign are in number 10.

They are the ones spreading disinformation.

TomMRiddle · 26/10/2020 17:13

It's a bit hypocritical to say look forward not back when the leave campaign was all about getting back to the way things were.

They never produced an idea of what life would look like outside of the EU prior to the vote.

ListeningQuietly · 26/10/2020 17:18

Not sure what is hypocritical about saying that we have to start from where we are not where we were.

The folks in Downing street are of the la la land rainbow unicorn variety.
They have no clue.
Just look at the Attorney General looking blankly at the camera as her mouth moves randomly.

SabrinaThwaite · 26/10/2020 17:20

So no, no Canada deal was ever offered a few years ago.

I’m going to continue to disagree - the EU certainly dangled a Canada style agreement, hence Tusk stating that quite clearly in October 2018.

But it was certainly not the type of fulsome agreement that the Brexiters are claiming has been denied them, as it would have effectively left NI in the CU/SM.

DGRossetti · 26/10/2020 17:22

It's amusing how many Leavers still think they have to fight the leave campaign and quite funny to be able to pull them up on it in debate.

prettybird · 26/10/2020 17:24

I think the "problem" with a Canada type deal is that it would have involved hard work Shock going through tariffs line by line and still wouldn't have delivered the cake that the Daniel Hannan's of this world thought "should" be on the table Hmm

So it was never a viable option Confused

TomMRiddle · 26/10/2020 17:25

The Canada deal was ruled out in 2017 with the EU's own red lines.

No deal was even negotiated till after December 2019 because of the delays to the withdrawl agreement being confirmed.

The deal Tusk said could be like Canada would have seen NI stay in the single market, also level playing fields, security cooperation etc. Essential soft brexit.

The deal Canada has was never offered, and never discussed at talks.

TomMRiddle · 26/10/2020 17:27

I think its hypocritical to say we have to look forward when the entire brexit campaign was looking backwards, to a time when things weren't as people claimed.

If we do need to look forward, again no one is showing what leave will look like in a positive sense except the fantasist.

ListeningQuietly · 26/10/2020 17:31

I'm not sure what you are getting at @TomMRiddle
At this stage in the game there are two options
(a) No deal WTO terms
(b) UK capitulates SM deal

Its a bit like the choice between Biden and Trump - in an ideal world there would be a decent candidate.
But we are not in an ideal world.

On Brexit in an ideal world we'd have decent trade deal options.
But we are not in an ideal world.

DGRossetti · 26/10/2020 17:33

The deal Canada has was never offered, and never discussed at talks.

Moreover, I can't recall anyone in a position of power saying it was what the UK wanted anyway.

I do recall the phrase "Canada plus" being bandied about. But not from anyone who was actually negotiating at the time.

Hence my raised eyebrows when Boris said it was all the UK ever wanted from the start.

Anyway, it's a dead end for discussion since the UK ain't getting it, and that is that. We return to the point made before the referendum. That no one on the Leave side had the faintest idea what they really wanted, let alone how to get there.